Sense motive what kind of action is it?


Rules Questions


I have read a lot, in the skill description one can read: at least one minute.
But there are a few exceptions and I am pretty sure I have not find all of them, please help me if I missed one.

Sense motive:


  • against Bluff: more or less free action / 1 round
  • snake style: immediate action
  • DC against feint: no action


Are there any other things one can do with sense motive?


Against bluff, it takes as long as the bluff action.

Quote:

Action

Deceive Someone: Attempting to deceive someone takes at least 1 round, but can possibly take longer if the lie is elaborate (as determined by the GM on a case-by-case basis).
Feint in Combat: Feinting in combat is a standard action. Sense motive here takes no action and can be used freely
Deliver Secret Message: Delivering a secret message generally takes twice as long as the message would otherwise take to relay.

So it will take as long as necessary.

But if you are using Sense Motive to determine when “something is up” (that is, something odd is going on) or to assess someone's trustworthiness, then it takes at least a minute.

Uses:

Spoiler:
Hunch: This use of the skill involves making a gut assessment of the social situation. You can get the feeling from another's behavior that something is wrong, such as when you're talking to an impostor. Alternatively, you can get the feeling that someone is trustworthy.

Sense Enchantment: You can tell that someone's behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect even if that person isn't aware of it. The usual DC is 25, but if the target is dominated (see dominate person), the DC is only 15 because of the limited range of the target's activities.

Discern Secret Message: You may use Sense Motive to detect that a hidden message is being transmitted via the Bluff skill. In this case, your Sense Motive check is opposed by the Bluff check of the character transmitting the message. For each piece of information relating to the message that you are missing, you take a –2 penalty on your Sense Motive check. If you succeed by 4 or less, you know that something hidden is being communicated, but you can't learn anything specific about its content. If you beat the DC by 5 or more, you intercept and understand the message. If you fail by 4 or less, you don't detect any hidden communication. If you fail by 5 or more, you might infer false information.

Shadow Lodge

There is no hard rule that says it takes "at least 1 minute". The sense motive skill description says it generally takes one minute. If it's during a conversation, a minute goes by pretty quickly though. I surely wouldn't allow a sense motive during the first few rounds of a combat situation. Ultimately, it is GM fiat based on the situation how long it will take.


I allow less than a minute ... However, you take a penalty based on how much less than a minute due to limited information to base your hunch on.


Ok thank you. It helps a lot


I'd think it shouldn't really matter as sense motive will just be out of combat and a quick sense of something that was just said or take a minute+ for hunch.

I would think you wouldn't be doing sense motive's in combat as it's obvious their motive is to stab you in the face.

Shadow Lodge

MattR1986 wrote:

I'd think it shouldn't really matter as sense motive will just be out of combat and a quick sense of something that was just said or take a minute+ for hunch.

I would think you wouldn't be doing sense motive's in combat as it's obvious their motive is to stab you in the face.

Someone could be charmed or dominated and is being told to attack you in which case you use sense motive to see if his/her actions are being influenced by a charm effect. That is usually the time when it is used in combat.


MattR1986 wrote:

I'd think it shouldn't really matter as sense motive will just be out of combat and a quick sense of something that was just said or take a minute+ for hunch.

I would think you wouldn't be doing sense motive's in combat as it's obvious their motive is to stab you in the face.

has used Sense Motive and Diplomacy in combat to defuse situations and save lives


I would call it a swift or a free just like many perception checks in combat. You're constantly taking in and processing information and this would be to see if something catches you as off when you see it. When you look at the AMBARBARIAN charging at you it shouldn't take but a second to notice his eyes are glossy and googly and something is off.


Liath Samathran wrote:
MattR1986 wrote:

I'd think it shouldn't really matter as sense motive will just be out of combat and a quick sense of something that was just said or take a minute+ for hunch.

I would think you wouldn't be doing sense motive's in combat as it's obvious their motive is to stab you in the face.

has used Sense Motive and Diplomacy in combat to defuse situations and save lives

Diplomacy would really depend on the DM as to whether he thinks people would stop and listen while blades are being swung at each other. And what would you need sense motive for in the middle of combat? To know if they're going to eat you or just kill you?

Shadow Lodge

I would certainly say it's a free action to "use" sense motive in that situation but it would likely take a few rounds of combat to decipher this information. I may decrease the time if your sense motive is high enough but it's still all at the GM's discretion either way.

Silver Crusade

MattR1986 wrote:
Liath Samathran wrote:
MattR1986 wrote:

I'd think it shouldn't really matter as sense motive will just be out of combat and a quick sense of something that was just said or take a minute+ for hunch.

I would think you wouldn't be doing sense motive's in combat as it's obvious their motive is to stab you in the face.

has used Sense Motive and Diplomacy in combat to defuse situations and save lives
Diplomacy would really depend on the DM as to whether he thinks people would stop and listen while blades are being swung at each other.

The right words coupled with how you're fighting back(if at all) can make all the difference in the world with a GM that runs their NPCs like people.

And heroes imploring foes to lay down their arms/think about what they're doing/trying to save their opponent's life is a very common trope. My good characters do it a lot. Sometimes it works, so it's more than worth it.

Quote:
And what would you need sense motive for in the middle of combat? To know if they're going to eat you or just kill you?

To see if they're acting as themselves, to see if they seem to be coerced, to see if they're completely lucid, confirming suspicions if they're acting out of character, to get an idea of what their intentions within combat are, to get an idea of whether or not they're attacking mostly out of fear and desperation, to tell if we're being purposefully delayed while something else is happening that we should be preventing, to see if we're being maneuvered into something bad, etc.


Many of those redundancies are redundant.

Silver Crusade

MattR1986 wrote:
Many of those redundancies are redundant.

All of them are specific things my characters have done.

Hey, you asked.

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