Do polymorph spells / wild shape grant elemental damage?

[aaronak]

One of my players asked me this question, and I'm kind of interested in finding an answer. Suppose someone uses a polymorph effect, such as wild shape, to turn into a creature whose melee attack line includes elemental damage. The example is a Viper Vine - its melee attack line says

Bestiary 2 wrote:

Melee bite +23 (2d6+8/19–20 plus 3d6 acid), 4 tentacles +21 (1d6+4 plus grab)

This acid damage is never explained, not under "Special Attacks" nor anywhere else in the stat block. So, suppose I used plant shape III to turn into a Viper Vine - am I granted a bite attack that does acid damage, or not?

[James Risner]

You should get all damage dice unless those dice come from an Extraordinary, Supernatural or other ability that is not granted by the Wild Shape.

[LazarX]

The spells grant EXACTLY what the spells say they grant, limited to what's in the bestiary statblock. So take stack of stuff from bestiary. Take stack of stuff from polymorph spell. Find the overlap. That's what you get.

[aaronak]

It doesn't even come from the polymorph spell, which does not say anything about the spell granting attacks. Rather, it comes from the general polymorph rules:

Quote:

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

The question is whether the acid damage counts as part of the natural attack, since normally bites do not do acid damage.

[RJGrady]

aaronak wrote:

This acid damage is never explained, not under "Special Attacks" nor anywhere else in the stat block.

That pretty much means there is no answer to your question. As polymorph spells grant your Strength modifier to determine your damage bonus, a strict reading could say the acid damage is bonus damage and therefore you don't get it.

[Taenia]

You gain the natural attacks of the creatures.

The natural attacks say it does this.

You do that. If the ability refers to a special power you don't get you don't get it.

So if it does +1d6 acid damage but has no ability that gives it acid damage then it is considered part of the natural attack and you include the damage.

[Nefreet]

I'd imagine if you wildshaped into a Fire Elemental, you'd get the extra 1d6 fire added to your slams.

I don't see this as any different.

EDIT: whoops, j/k. Fire Elementals don't have "+1d6 fire". But I think the principle is the same.

[Moondragon Starshadow]

That is correct for wild shape, you gain the natural attacks, and if the natural attacks have a bonus for elemental damage, you get that bonus as well. You essentially are that creature.

Now, some caveats: If a creature is using a ability that is listed under beast shape IV like POUNCE, RAKE, CONSTRICT, etc. you must make sure that your character level's beast shape allows you access to that ability. So, a level 4 character cannot use RAKE, even if they are as a creature that normally does have RAKE.

Second, you do not gain the creature's feats, like improved critical, improved natural attacks, etc. So, if there is a Bite 2d6 (19-20/x2), you have to check to see if the Bite crit is normal crit range or if that has been boosted by the feat improved critical.

Third: You cannot wild shape into a magical beast, despite what it says in the Beast Shape spell, because the specific language of wild shape overrules that portion.

Fourth: You do not assume all of the creature's stats. You modify your existing stats based upon the spell.

[James Risner]

Nefreet wrote:

I'd imagine if you wildshaped into a Fire Elemental, you'd get the extra 1d6 fire added to your slams.

Elementals are:

Melee slam +4 (1d4 plus burn)
Burn (Ex) A creature with the burn special attack deals fire damage in addition to damage dealt ...

Burn is an ability granted by Elemental Body I, so Druids get it.

[Nefreet]

Didn't read very far into that comment, did you?

[James Risner]

Nefreet wrote:

Didn't read very far into that comment, did you?

I read it all. I'm trying to help the original question.

If the weapon has damage dice listed, you get it unless there is a Special Ability listed you don't get.

I wasn't at all clear in that.

[Taenia]

Yep since bestiary 4 came out my ooze druid is enjoying his 1d3 wis drain slam attack.