Goblin Squad Member
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Greetings everyone and moreso the Goblinworks team...
Here comes a plead from an old school MMO/RPG player....
"Make sure that loot actually can make a difference again"
This pleads comes after I have been playing the released MMO's the last few years only to see that the loot these days are sooo boring to find.
I sat down and began to think of why it felt like this and it didn't take long time to come to the conclusion.
The loot is not anything special anymore since it has been all about balancing these days. So basically it's like this to give an example: Lets say at lvl 10 you have an standard axe that does 20 damage, then you can find an axe of better quality (green item) which makes the damage to become 21 instead and then an even better version (blue item) would have the damage of 22. Then you turn to lvl 11 and find an axe for that lvl and then the damage is 22, 23 and 24 (std, green and blue).
All the above make finding a magic weapon really dull since you know exactly what to expect. This takes out the exitement of seeing a magic weapon/equipment in the lootwindow.
What I would like to see is more "back to the RPG/old school MMOs" feeling. If you are lucky AND have the skills to find and conquere a really rare and challenging encounter then you should be able to find a loot that is ALOT better then the normal loots. Also if you are able to defeat an encounter that is lets say 5 lvls above you then by all means feel free to use the loot he drops. You made an accomplishment and should be rewarded for it and your would have a huge smile on your face knowing that you can use that item and this enhancing your performance alot.
To avoid having items being twink items then the item should be bound to character on pickup but still tradable which mean that the lvl requirement of the item is removed all the time YOU carry the item, but as soon it's traded then the lvl requirement takes place again.
I mean look back to the old EQ days where one items could make a huge difference and ofc it took both effort and time to gain those (or a huge amount of luck). This is what I would like to see returned instead of the regular "Wow, I got a magic weapon, now I am really special = Not true at all" feeling.
Worth to be mentioned, it doesn't have to be all around damage which was an example but other useful extras to the items could also be a really nice addon which makes difference for example you find a sword that is slightly better then a "magical" blue sword, but this special sword also gives you the possibilty to teleport twice per day.
So to conclude - Make loot have a difference. Just because loot makes a difference doesn't take out the skill requirement from the player, even if a person with less good gear would have a larger disadvantage doesn't mean that he isn't skilled enough to be a better equipped player.
** EDIT - Just wanted to make sure that this was an example since Pathfinder Online doesn't use lvls, but I am sure you understand the basic reasoning around the issue
My few coppers!
/Aza
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The gear cycle is going to be a little bit different. For one, the equipment is almost all produced by player crafting rather than by mob drops. Equipment beyond your abilities (having keywords that your abilities don't use) might not make you any more effective. And I don't expect the world will be segregated neatly by monster level; the dungeons under cities will reach advanced levels, as will remote ruins.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hello and welcome!
Pretty much all weapons and armor will be made by crafters. Weapons will use keywords and tiers to qualify them. Tier 1 is low end, tier 3 is high end. A few keywords: Piercing, Silver, Crushing, of Vampire-slaying, Burning. I think a weapon can have a few Major Keywords and a few minor, To Be Determined.
Simple, lower tier weapons may be found as loot (I think) or be sold in the starter cities by NPC's. After that, it is all crafted.
They have mentioned Boss monsters (from an escalation) dropping special, rare loot, but you probably have to think "rare crafting ingredient", like a Boss vampire dropping something that can make you a Tier 3 weapon vs Vampires.
There are several posts from the devs about weapons, but as far as I know there will not be any super rare, unique weapons dropping from mobs. that does not mean all weapons are generic: A tier 3 Blade with 5 keywords that are really in demand could well be very hard to craft, and have a high price.
There is also decay, and when a player dies, 25% of his inventory will be destroyed immediately. Repairing weapons is a process that will take time, crafting expertise and money so sometimes a new weapon is a better option. Players can thread items (make them safe from looting and destruction, but not decay) but the more costly your threaded items the less items you can thread.
I have no time now to find the quotes about weapons but do not expect Ghoulbane and Bonebladed Claymores to be dropping from mobs here.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'd like to see cosmetically different weapons. When a longsword looks like any other longsword it disappoints me, but I will go out of my way to get a sword that fits the character.
For example, in GW2 I use the transform tokens a lot to keep the look of my weapons when I acquire new ones. My pirate character has swashbuckler gear, my 'paladin' has high medieval and my Saxon warrior has Dark-Age-looking weapons.
If a crafter could specify the appearance of the finished item (within limits, of course), it would make shopping around a much more worthwhile procedure. When your Arabic rogue knows a place he can buy a nice curved dagger, he's going to seek out that crafter if the player is concerned about his appearance and character. That means a settlement can have more crafters making a living by each specialising in a different appearance for their items.
Maybe have different crafter specialism skillsets branches to aim for - 'Eastern1' 'Eastern 2', 'Medieval4' and so on and so forth.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So to conclude - Make loot have a difference. Just because loot makes a difference doesn't take out the skill requirement from the player, even if a person with less good gear would have a larger disadvantage doesn't mean that he isn't skilled enough to be a better equipped player.
I hate it when people say this, as if having less powered gear is somehow still capable in a fight. Those with better gear are probably as skilled if not more so than the players without, leaving this fight to swing in a pretty obvious way.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Greetings everyone and moreso the Goblinworks team...
Here comes a plead from an old school MMO/RPG player....
"Make sure that loot actually can make a difference again"
All the above make finding a magic weapon really dull since you know exactly what to expect. This takes out the exitement of seeing a magic weapon/equipment in the lootwindow.
To avoid having items being twink items then the item should be bound to character on pickup but still tradable which mean that the lvl requirement of the item is removed all the time YOU carry the item, but as soon it's traded then the lvl requirement takes place again.
I think we are getting a lot of this. Except for maybe the magic items in a loot-window. But instead we will have components for magic items showing up in loot windows - which should be just as exciting once our crafting system is fleshed out and enriched.
The design intent is to not restrict who can wear which items at all. Rather items are designed with Keywords that function off of skills. The items do not make they difference, they provide the potential for a difference.
Two equally trained players, one with +5 gear and one with +2 gear will probably see the +5 gear guy win (I hope). But a novice player with one or two keywords activated on +5 gear will likely be at a disadvantage against a moderately trained player with 4 or 5 keywords activated in the +2 gear. The +5 guy has better tools, but the +2 guy really knows how to use them to best effect. Who has the better gear is an afterthought to who is better trained for the gear they have. Which is pretty true in real life as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just glad that when I kill a bear in the woods, it won't drop a +1 battle ax!
This bear wants to know why he can't keep his axe.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I'm just glad that when I kill a bear in the woods, it won't drop a +1 battle ax!This bear wants to know why he can't keep his axe.
I'm not going to try to take it from him...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just glad that when I kill a bear in the woods, it won't drop a +1 battle ax!This bear wants to know why he can't keep his axe.
Because there are laws restricting people running about the place with a bear chopper.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Because there are laws restricting people running about the place with a bear chopper.I'm just glad that when I kill a bear in the woods, it won't drop a +1 battle ax!This bear wants to know why he can't keep his axe.
You don't have the right to arm bears?
EDIT: we are talking bearded axes here, no?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I just want to drop in that for the talk about prereqs for something we don't need to distinguish between levels and ranks at all, as they are effectively same for this discussion.
Anyway, I think it has been stated plenty but basically the only time you are going to find item drops are going to be that one in a billion super extra rare boss encounter. it shouldn't just be rare, but like beyond rare the stuff of legends. Otherwise why have crafters making super epic stuff?
On that note, I kind of wish weapons be viable for longer, that way it makes weapons that appear later be all that more amazing. It shouldn't matter if you are first level or twentieth, a plain iron/steel sword should be effective, maybe not the MOST effective, but still. Thus it is more about skill, tactics, and interaction than what equipment you have AND also that when someone comes in with a "rare" item it is actually head-turningly RARE not "oh hey another orange item gee, cool."
That is my hope.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I am reading between the lines, it is not just skill and it is not just the weapons, it is the bonus that comes from the special talent (keyword) in that skill which activates/utilizes the feature (keyword) in the weapon.If you don't have the talent, it is a steel sword to you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It shouldn't matter if you are first level or twentieth, a plain iron/steel sword should be effective,
You really don't want an iron sword....
An academic treatise on the relative qualities of swords made from iron and from steel.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I doubt that "rare" items will be as rare as you hope, Zael. Goes back to the whole point about Goblinworks not investing a bunch of time and effort into something only a few people will actually get to use; if they make powerful items I expect them to be common among people who have access to higher-power items.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... As an archaeologist I am well aware of the difference in the qualities of weapon materials, but I don't think that matters in most games xD
We aren't talking 'most games', but even in most of those weapons that deliver greater advantage are valued more than those that deliver lesser advantage. 'Leet Loot' is as common a descriptor as 'buffed'. What makes a weapon 'leet' is usually a consequence of the quality of the components it is made from. In some it is merely the quality of the resource, in others it is the quality of the resource coupled with the skills of the artisan(s) crafting the weapon.
My understanding is that there will be better and worse material components in PFO. Material superiority or inferiority will be a consequence, at least in part, of the quality of the materials used in it's making.