Talking raven familiar with a wand


GM Discussion


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

I've seen several discussion on this, but I want to see what the final ruling was.

Can a talking raven familiar use a wand?

Is there any text anywhere that supports it being able or not being able to use a wand?

Thanks


Oh and I wanted to add this question about the familiar using a wand is specifically for pathfinder society play.


It can't use a wand.
EDIt: Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

It has no hands.

The Exchange 5/5

Cardinal Chunder wrote:

It can't use a wand.

EDIt: Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

It has no hands.

I have never seen this answered in anything official. (it has an issue sense the days of ed. 3.0).

Besides the fact that a raven has grasping feet ("... whatever passes for a hand..." from your post above), it can, and does grip things with it's beak. I've seen a "talking" bird that would speak while clinging to it's cage walls with it's beak.

This is very much still a YMMV issue...

Sorry SH527! I wish it was resolved also!

Edit to add in a link to another thread about this on the Rules board.. ...

4/5

nosig wrote:
Cardinal Chunder wrote:

It can't use a wand.

EDIt: Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

It has no hands.

I have never seen this answered in anything official. (it has an issue sense the days of ed. 3.0).

Besides the fact that a raven has grasping feet ("... whatever passes for a hand..." from your post above), it can, and does grip things with it's beak. I've seen a "talking" bird that would speak while clinging to it's cage walls with it's beak.

This is very much still a YMMV issue...

Sorry SH527! I wish it was resolved also!

Edit to add in a link to another thread about this on the Rules board.. ...

I'm almost 100% positive I have seen Mike rule definitively that the raven cannot use the wand. It was back near the time of the great ape discussion, so it might be hard to dig up.

The Exchange 5/5

Mark Seifter wrote:
nosig wrote:
Cardinal Chunder wrote:

It can't use a wand.

EDIt: Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method, so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action that doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however, it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used while grappling or while swallowed whole.

It has no hands.

I have never seen this answered in anything official. (it has an issue sense the days of ed. 3.0).

Besides the fact that a raven has grasping feet ("... whatever passes for a hand..." from your post above), it can, and does grip things with it's beak. I've seen a "talking" bird that would speak while clinging to it's cage walls with it's beak.

This is very much still a YMMV issue...

Sorry SH527! I wish it was resolved also!

Edit to add in a link to another thread about this on the Rules board.. ...

I'm almost 100% positive I have seen Mike rule definitively that the raven cannot use the wand. It was back near the time of the great ape discussion, so it might be hard to dig up.

Even if it could, it would be a really HARD UMD check...

A Raven has a CHA of 7, so that would be a -2, and the Spellcaster would need to have at least 2 ranks in UMD to give the Familiar a 1 in 20 chance... Say an 8th level wizard puts 8 ranks into UMD, that still only gives the Familiar a 30% chance to get the wand to work (and it still has a 5% "jam" rate).

I don't see this as being a major issue... am I missing something?

Scarab Sages 5/5

I'm almost 100% positive I have seen Mike rule definitively that the raven cannot use the wand. It was back near the time of the great ape discussion, so it might be hard to dig up.

=============
What they did is define what familars could use wands - and it is a very small list. Even things with spell like abilities, hands and charisma bonuses didn't make the list of the familiars that could UMD a wand.

A raven was not on the list.

Search for Improved Familiar Questions in general discussion - or mephits (because I one time they were not on the list and then later they were added)

Also check the FAQ as that would seem an obvious place to look

5/5 5/55/55/5

an my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?

It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.

Linky

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

PFS FAQ wrote:

Can my animal companion or familiar wear or use magic items?

It is intended that animal companions or familiars can not activate magic items.

There are a couple of exceptions made to that later in the FAQ and various board posts (one involving Ioun stones and a few more with regard to improved familiar.) None of those exceptions involve ravens and wands, so sadly, your raven cannot activate *any* magic items except Ioun stones.

(heh, ninjaed)


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Check Animal Archive for what item slots your animal companion or familiar has by default. I think d20pfsrd.com copied the relevant information onto their site.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

David, PFS overrides the AA slots. He gets Neck and Barding unless he spends a feat on an additional slots, and even then he only gets continuous benefits from an item, no activated benefits.

Silver Crusade 2/5 * Venture-Agent, Florida—Longwood

What about a psuedo dragon or fairy dragon familiar? There's one player in my area who is always having his fairy dragon (cert granted) use wands.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Tamec wrote:
What about a psuedo dragon or fairy dragon familiar? There's one player in my area who is always having his fairy dragon (cert granted) use wands.

I dunno about pseudo dragons, but Faerie Dragons can use any magic item they want to.

Silver Crusade 2/5

Here's a post from last August, the same time as the last FAQ for PFS. I don't know if Mike has since changed what he wants for improved familiars, but this specifically doesn't allow -other- familiars to use wands.

Note: it is useful to read the posts around this one.

Edit: Here is a more comprehensive post from the same thread.

Silver Crusade 2/5

This is the text in question:

Mike Brock wrote:

Wand use doesn't require the Animal Archive for these few improved familiars - brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, mephit, quasit, sprite familiars - gained with the Improved Familiar feat. They use their master's UMD when activating a wand.

No other activated item may be used, to include scrolls, by any animal companion, familiar, or improved familiar.

Grand Lodge

nosig wrote:

Besides the fact that a raven has grasping feet

Ravens don't have grasping feet, they're not raptors nor owls, they don't belong to any of the subspecies of birds with talons. When they gather materials for nesting, like most species of birds, it's with their beaks.


Hands are used to activate wands, not feet which is what is at the end of the Raven's legs. What "passes for hands" would be its wings.
Unless people are also saying its fine to use Boots of Teleportation on my hands...

The Exchange 5/5 RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

I am perfectly happy with a game where a bird's feet "count as" hands for some purposes, but not others. I am playing a role-playing game, with a table GM able to exercise judgement.

I am perfectly happy with the PFS guidelines explaining which familiars can do what.

Do any of the cool improved familiars that can use wands, also disguise themselves as black birds?

Silver Crusade 2/5 * Venture-Agent, Florida—Longwood

Ok, thanks. It's just a little disconcerting to be standing there pointing my wand at a monster and have someone else's familiar land on my arm and activate my wand.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Chris Mortika wrote:

Do any of the cool improved familiars that can use wands, also disguise themselves as black birds?

If you assume that golarions modern birds are descendants of avian dinosaurs, then there is at least one radical improved familiar who has demonstrated no problem with being large sized black objects filled with claws and death. So while it hasn't canonically, it theoretically could, disguise itself as a enormous black bird ( of death ).

Why am I speaking in circles?

Spoiler:
Because its a spoiler for a scenario, and if you've done it you know what I'm talking about.

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