I have been running my homebrew game for a little over a year now, and I have been working on how to stat my big bad elder goddess of chaos. It has been pretty tricky and I ended up scrapping my last attempt. She has a snake motif, one insidious mind, and a lot of anger. Any ideas on how I should stat her up or on what abilities to give her? I have access to the Deities and Demigods book and many Pathfinder products as well. So, your advice would be much obliged, thank you!
If she's a god, she doesn't need stats, outside of what domains she grants her followers and her favored weapon.
Well, consider this stat up for her avatar.
What CR?
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And what CR would such an avatar have? 15? 20? 25? Do you use the mythic rules? How will the PCs interact with her? What sort of combatant do you want her to be?
A start could be to make up her history, delineating the main events she was involved in. How did she become a goddess? Is she the original chaos in some way, or was she born from it? How powerful is she in the world? What are her goals? How does she see intelligent life? Does she have any worshipers, and what is their dogma, and how do they enact her will (if they do)? Is she active in the world? Why, or why not? If she's been imprisoned somehow, perhaps that could be used against her? What friends and enemies does she have, and why? Which are her domains, and why is she associated with the different parts of her portfolio? How does she see snake-themed monsters, such as nagas, medusas, lillends, mariliths, and so on?
Once you have done this, you should get a clear picture to start working from. All the above things can, somehow, influence her stats. Having a devious mind suggests that spellcasting as a wizard or witch could be a major part of her power. Anger can be expressed through rage, such as spreading rage by touch or by gaze. Snake motifs recur in medusas, so she could have a petrification attack. Other good ones are hypnotism, domination, and poison. Summoning snakes is another given. Chaos changes things (polymorph), dissolves things (disintegration), and could disrupt her environment through various shifting elemental auras or the like. Special attacks, spell-like abilities and so on should fit her themes and domains.
Once you know all this, find a monster with the same main combat role at about the right CR and work from there, trying to give her appropriate combat stats to challenge your players in the intended encounter. Follow the normal steps: Race, classes, stats, skills, feats, equipment.
Next, design the encounter where they'll meet her. If she's a spellcaster, she is going to want minions around her to influence, so you should design a servant creature for the goddess, plus it's almost always a bad idea to put a single boss monster against a whole PC group. Decide if you intend for them to fight her while fresh, or at the end of a long series of fights to wear them down. They are fighting a goddess, so give her a decent scene, and add terrain for both sides to use. If it's her home, she almost certainly has a few surprises to add variety to the fight.
It's still a complicated thing to make a high-CR creature that works well in combat, but I hope this way can make it a bit easier.
Thank you for the responses!
Her intended CR is to be 30, but pushing towards a bit higher.
I do use mythic rules.
They met a weakened minion of hers as their first boss waaaaaay back when they were level ones. The minion cursed two of the pcs (who have been plagued by terrible nightmares, mutations, and more) and her cult is leading the charge to bring her back into the world. She is currently a spirit that is floating about in the great beyond. Her body, which is diced up (think what the Olympians did to Kronos), is slowly reforming in a sarcophagus deep within the Abyss. Her cult is trying to reunite her spirit with her reforming body.
Sissyl, you gave me some great ideas, and I thank you for them!
Her domains are Chaos,Darkness,Destruction,Evil,and Magic.
Here is the figure that I will be using as her mini. http://product-images.highwire.com/1784595/2750382.jpg
Thanks again for all the ideas! Please send any more that come to you!
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The simplest thing is probably to use Hastur as a starting point. He is sort of a lord of madness, and he is sort of an avatar-in-an-item already.
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Mormo from the Scarred Lands setting seems to be a good fit...
Thanks Deadmanwalking, I'll look into possibly using Hastur.
Sissyl, I am not familiar with the Scared Lands setting, who is Mormo?
*Scarred Lands, my apologies.
Heh, when I first started reading this thread, I thought of a completely different sort of scenario.
It wouldn't just be a Gargantuan creature that you fight, it would be more of a mini-game.
The creature would be beyond massive. The players would have to dodge tentacles, make different saves at different times, and every few turns, you'd get a chance to attack a vital spot, or something. Deal enough damage, and that tentacle is destroyed or something. Be a lot of roleplaying, and a lot of different things going on all at once (villagers manning siege weapons, maybe a couple airships flying around it, etc.). And of course, in true Lovecraftian form, it'd be emerging out of the sea, coming towards a city built on a cliffside.
Heck, a few of the adventures before the main fight could be in preparation of this fight, and the rewards of completing those adventures (in addition to standard loot and xp) would be more airships/siege weapons/whatever.
And maybe even...the goal wouldn't be to kill it with your puny martial weapons or anything, but to lure it into a massive trap (an NPC, or PC if they have the ability, is prepped, waiting to cast Earthquake or whatever, making a landslide around the creature. They need the beast in a certain place for it to work, though).
I dunno. Maybe I just play too many video games, but this seems like it could be a much cooler battle for the avatar of an elder goddess that just trading licks with a Colossal creature. *shrugs*
Ooh, and plot twist, the trap fails, but deus ex machina it up: they effectively "beat" the creature after they successfully get it into the trap, even though the trap fails. An NPC arrives with an artifact (he left to seek it after an argument between the party and he. The party didn't think it could be found, or be effective, or whatever), and a new mini-game begins. Or whatever.
You could also have smaller beasts flying around. Fairly weak, but to get to an area, a PC might have to spend a turn killing one. Little creatures that come from the avatar, either in some sickly spawning fashion, or maybe portals opening up around the avatar that let in these things.
Again, I dunno. But if it's gonna be a main, main boss, make it something to remember. And if a party has spent pretty much their entire career rolling d20s, then change it up for the grand finale. It'd make it feel more like an achievement than just "Oh, my character's stats trumps the stats of this boss".
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Question: Could the 20th level Zen Archer 'One' defeat the Hastur avatar with ease? It seems so, but I'll leave it to people with more theory-craft skill.
Actually...looking at them both Hastur probably murders him dead rather easily. He can theoretically take Hastur if Hastur fails too many of his saves vs. Stunning Fist (which he only fails on a 7 or less, and can spend mythic power on to add a d12)...but that's seriously unlikely.
One is only gonna hit a couple of times per round, average (his first three attacks hit on a 14+, his next two on 19+, the other three on 20+, though he gets to roll three times on one of them and take the best), and Hastur is probably gonna do the same...but that's only gonna be 48 damage to Hastur (since his DR applies), and he has Fast Healing 25 and 731 HP (so 32 rounds or so). Criticals up that somewhat...but not enough. One, meanwhile takes 12 (plus 2d6 stacking Bleed), plus another 70 if he's insane (which he will be within a few rounds given the DC 40 save to avoid it), and only has 233 HP (so 20 rounds assuming he's immune to bleed and never becomes insane, or about two or three rounds after he goes mad, which averages out as the second or third round or thereabouts).
That's assuming a stand-up fight, of course. A running fight is actually probably worse for One. As Hastur would just Mythic Enervate him to death, which can't fail to hit and does 1d6 Negative Levels, killing One in 6 rounds average. Or 8 with non-Mythic Enervate. He's got enough movement to keep up well enough for that with an occasional wasted round for Dimension Door (so maybe as much as 10-12 rounds). Actually, even in a stand-up fight, he'd do that for a turn or two first. A -7 on One's attacks makes Hastur basically untouchable. And he can definitely survive two rounds.
So...One is probably more of a fight for Hastur than most 20th level characters, but still doesn't have a prayer.
Seems to me a CR30 Challenge needs to be a lot tougher. It's a good start, though.
He's CR 29, actually, which is why I said 'as a starting point'.
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That's assuming a stand-up fight, of course. A running fight is actually probably worse for One. As Hastur would just Mythic Enervate him to death, which can't fail to hit and does 1d6 Negative Levels, killing One in 6 rounds average. Or 8 with non-Mythic Enervate. He's got enough movement to keep up well enough for that with an occasional wasted round for Dimension Door (so maybe as much as 10-12 rounds). Actually, even in a stand-up fight, he'd do that for a turn or two first. A -7 on One's attacks makes Hastur basically untouchable. And he can definitely survive two rounds.
Note: Re-reading One, he has Restoration (something I missed). On the other hand, Hastur has a DC 40 paralysis effect it can use as a swift action every turn it's adjacent to One at any point, that I didn't account for. And Greater Dispel Magic (potentially Mythic Greater Dispel Magic), and enough Stealth to use Dimension Door to disappear and heal up whenever it likes (it's got +6 over One's Perception and can move easily far enough), and does 20 more damage per turn of full attack because I missed it counting as Chaotic for overcoming DR.
So...yeah, I don't think that changes the result in One's favor.
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Mormo is the titan of witchcraft, snakes and such, the mother of various snake-themed races, a force of nature defeated 150 years ago in the Divine War by the gods and their allied races, which devastated nature across the continent of Ghelspad. She was slaughtered by the gods and her essence rained down over the Broadreach forest, now the Hornsaw forest, twisting it and corrupting every creature therein. Considering what you wrote about your goddess of Chaos and serpents, I would say she's an extremely good fit. You should be able to find good things to use with a simple net search. The setting has spells, races, monsters and so on that could help you.
Sissyl, thanks again for your advice. I found some interesting stuff from my research. It is a good fit. Also, thank you for introducing me to a really cool setting.
Mechanical Pear, I like your idea of making it not a traditional fight and having it be a mini-game of sorts. I wanted to do something kind of like that as she is forming as a way to weaken her (similair to in RotRL you can weaken Karzoug before meeting him in the Eye of Avarice). Any thoughts on how to go about such a mini-game?
Also, looking at Hastur as a starting point has been pretty useful.
Thanks again everybody, please keep sending me advice, it really helps!