Hey all,
I'm planning on building a Dazing Spell focused Sorcerer, but I'm not really sure what feats, spells, etc. to take. My idea so far is:
Arcane Bloodline
Magical Lineage: Fireball
Spell Focus: Evocation
Greater Spell Focus
Spell Specialization: Fireball
Intensified Spell? Empowered Spell? Some other metamagic feat...
Dazing Spell
What level should I take Dazing Spell (assuming I have the -1 trait bonus from Magical Lineage)? Are there any other feats I should concentrate on? What about spells, is Fireball the way to go? Is Arcane the best bloodline here?
Thanks!
If you want to deal lots of damage then you want to focus on increasing caster level and damage caps. If you want to go down the Dazing route then you want to focus on increasing the spell DC. You will struggle to be able to do both.
If I wanted to focus on Dazing using evocations I would look at something like:
1: Spell Focus
3: Greater Spell Focus
5: Persistent Spell
7: Improved Initiative (bloodline)
7: Spell Penetration
9: Dazing Spell
11: Quicken Spell
13: Still Spell (bloodline)
13: Greater Spell Penetration
15: Spell Perfection
If I wanted to focus on the damage side then I would look at:
1: Spell Focus
3: Spell Specialisation
5: Intensified Spells
7: Improved Initiative (bloodline)
7: Spell Penetration
9: Empower Spell
11: Dazing Spell
13: Still Spell (bloodline)
13: Quicken Spell
15: Spell Perfection
The second build really needs Elemental Spell (cold or acid) as it is heavily relying on maximising damage from its preferred spell perfection spell and coming up against an immune enemy will suck. The first is less concerned but will need to know a slighter wider variety of elemental spells. I would also recommend taking a couple of SR:No conjyurations with it such as Acid Arrow, Ice Spears or Hungry Pit.
Wizard, Witch, or Theologian Cleric is a better choice for this than Sorcerer. Sorcerer metamagic cast time increases just aren't worth it, and the Arcane Bloodline power is only useable a couple of times per day.
On bloodline you have a couple of options. For the absolute maximum damage build then crossblooded Orc/Draconic will give you the best damage values. BUT it has a huge downside. You know fewer spells and you gain access to new spells another level later. You still get the slots at the same time as you otherwise would but as you know 1 fewer spell at each level you can only use them to fuel metamagicked spells.
Personally I much prefer Arcane. I would use base Arcane for the familiar (and a +4 initiative boost) unless playing in PFS when I would be very tempted by Sage for the masseive increase in skill points. In a home game you can be confident that someone has certain skills covered, in a PFS con game you have much less certainty of that.
On choice of preferred Dazing spell that will depend on which level you are liekly to reach. If the game wont go much past 8th then Scorching Ray or Fireball are a good choice. If you will reach 12th then Fireball or Ball Lightning. If you will go to 15th/16th and therefore gain access to Spell Perfection then Chain Lightning is your best bet as it has a higher base DC and allows you to more easily target enemies.
Imbicatus wrote: Wizard, Witch, or Theologian Cleric is a better choice for this than Sorcerer. Sorcerer metamagic cast time increases just aren't worth it, and the Arcane Bloodline power is only useable a couple of times per day. This is nonsense. While you do have to deal with the increased cast time Sorcerers make far better use of metamagic by being able to apply it on the fly to whichever spell works best in that particular situation. If you will reach high level then it is even more nonsence as you gain your capstone at 16 with the Robe of Arcane Heritage.
If you are finding it an issue then Spontaneous Metafocus will allow you to metamagic your preferred spell with no cast time issues although it really shouldnt be necessary. From mid levels onwards you will be flying most of the time anyway so wont need to move much.
I think if you aren't married to the Arcane bloodline or Dazing Spell you can play for both damage and status effects. A Tattooed Sorcerer of the Marid bloodline is very scary from level 1.
andreww wrote: Imbicatus wrote: Wizard, Witch, or Theologian Cleric is a better choice for this than Sorcerer. Sorcerer metamagic cast time increases just aren't worth it, and the Arcane Bloodline power is only useable a couple of times per day. This is nonsense. While you do have to deal with the increased cast time Sorcerers make far better use of metamagic by being able to apply it on the fly to whichever spell works best in that particular situation. If you will reach high level then it is even more nonsence as you gain your capstone at 16 with the Robe of Arcane Heritage.
If you are finding it an issue then Spontaneous Metafocus will allow you to metamagic your preferred spell with no cast time issues although it really shouldnt be necessary. From mid levels onwards you will be flying most of the time anyway so wont need to move much. It's a question of playstyle, not nonsence. Spending a full round action to cast a spell is a pretty serious disadvantage. Locking yourself insto a specific bloodline or spending feats to counter that disadvantage is limiting choices.
In my opinion, Sorcerers are ok at using metamagic on one preferred spell if they use spell perfection or spontaneous metamagic, but prepared casters are the masters of it.
Having to guess in advance whether to memorise Persistent or Glitterdust or Create Pit is a serious disadvantage. Being able to do so on the fly is an enornmous advantage. Sponataneous casters make far better use of metamagic. Rods switch things up a bit but have limited uses, are expensive and have been hit with a mild nerf recently around how they work.
I think that both spontaneous and prepared casters can make really good use of metamagic, they just do it differently. Spontaneous casters LOVE Quicken Spell, at least sorcerers and oracles do, only full casters are gonna get full use of this one. Magi LOVE Intensified Spell, and anyone who blasts can use it to good effect. Metamagic out of Rods is a godsend to prepared casters and spontaneous casters alike. A Marid bloodline sorcerer is the king of Rime Spell. A really optimized wizard can probably make the most use of metamagic, but it is gonna be much easier for a sorcerer player to adapt it to something awesome on the fly.
How would a dazing spell build work at lower levels? Is there anything I can do to be useful even before I can daze?
bwee wrote: How would a dazing spell build work at lower levels? Is there anything I can do to be useful even before I can daze? You are still a spell caster.. Cast spells. You are useful if you blast or use battlefield control spells even before you daze with damage.
Take 1 level of Draconic/Orc sorc. +2 damage per die.
Proceed to level up from there on as an Admixture Evoker wizard.
Get any and everything that you can that increases Fireball's caster level and DC. There are many. Max out INT.
Traits: Magical Lineage and Wayang spellhunter both for Fireball.
Now your CL and DCs are absurd. You can Empower fireball out of a 3rd level slot. Dazing out of a 4th. Freely swap elements. And the +2 damage per die really adds up, especially when empowered.
That 1 level of sorc makes a BIG difference. Compare 10th level wiz to 9th wiz 1 sorc.
Wiz: Empower fireball 10d6 x 1.5 avg: 52.5
Wiz/Sorc: Empowered Fireball 9d6+18 x 1.5 avg: 74.25
For any caster specializing in damage spells, it is a must have level dip. Nothing compares.
I wouldn't go all in on fireball for a dazing specialist. Personally, I'd be tempted to use magical lineage on one of the second level evocations. Flaming sphere is probably my favorite, although frost fall is also cool, and dazing burning gaze is incredible to cast on your familiar (if you have one). That way, you can start dazing from level 8, rather than from level 10. Then move away from that spell once you reach higher levels, and probably pick ball lightning (or maybe chain lightning) for spell perfection at level 15. I don't think fireball is great for dazing at all - I'd say flaming sphere is usually better, and ball lightning is a lot better.
As for bloodlines, I'd probably go for arcane. If you do want to run with a signature spell I could see taking one of the elemental bloodlines, but I think you're better off using the arcane bloodline and a variety of different evocation spells. It already gives you +1 to the DC of anything metamagiced, and when full-round casting is impossible you have the bloodline power to circumvent that as well.
As for feats: spell focus evocation, greater spell focus evocation, spell penetration, greater spell penetration. Spell perfection is incredible, so you'll want the three prerequisite metamagic feats. Dazing and quicken seem obvious, persistent is very useful when you don't want to daze, since you're already taking the arcane bloodline, or you could take elemental spell: acid to boost your damage flexibility.
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