Two Handed Fighter Archetype
Dorn Dergar Master Feat
Dorn Dergar Weapon Listing
In the Two-Handed Fighter archetype, most of the class features refers to a "Two Handed Weapon" and not "weapon wielded in Two Hands". This makes it so that you cannot use a Longsword or Bastard Sword wielded in two hands with this archetype.
Does that therefore mean that you can use the Dwarven Dorn Dergar in both hands (Two Weapon Fighting) and still gain the bonuses from this archetype, as the Dorn Dergar is classed as a "Two Handed Weapon"? This question also applies to using Lances while Mounted, as they are also "Two Handed Weapons" that are allowed to be wielded in one-hand during specific circumstances.
I cannot coment on the longsword wielded in two hands. But the bastard sword when wielded in two hands is treated as a two handed weapon in every respect.
I think there is even a faq on it.
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I have a Dwarf fighter in PFS that uses a Dorn-Dergar and I was thinking of doing something similar. However, I found out from the forums that the weapon works in the same way as the Bastard Sword. If wielded in one hand, it is considered a one-handed weapon. If wielded in two hands, it is considered a two-handed weapon.
Yes, it will work in your favor while mounted with a lance. As you say, it is always a two-handed weapon, even when used one-handed.
If the entry says you're using it "as a one-handed weapon", such as with the Master feat, then it would not benefit from any Two-Handed Fighter abilities.
As Ragu noted, though, the Lance always stays a two-handed weapon. You just get to use it in one hand if you're mounted.
The Bastardsword is actually listed as a Exotic One-Handed Weapon, that can be used in Two Hands if have Martial Weapon Proficiency. It's still technically a One-Handed Weapon.
@fretgod99
Ah, I see what you mean. Well that throws my build out the window :P
Thanks for the help guys, guess it'll have to be the lance way
Excellent idea blackbloodtroll! I'll have to ask if my DM would allow an item from the Adventurers Armory, but since he's considering Dwarves of Golarion it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
For reference, Flambard is a weapon listed under Exotic Two Handed Weapon, that has a description of it having a bonus to sunder wood-made items though otherwise works like a Bastard Sword. Therefore it is a Two Handed Weapon that can be used in one hand if you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
Excellent idea blackbloodtroll! I'll have to ask if my DM would allow an item from the Adventurers Armory, but since he's considering Dwarves of Golarion it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
For reference, Flambard is a weapon listed under Exotic Two Handed Weapon, that has a description of it having a bonus to sunder wood-made items though otherwise works like a Bastard Sword. Therefore it is a Two Handed Weapon that can be used in one hand if you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
In my opinion, I don't think that will help you (at least it wouldn't if I were running the game). The Flambard operates essentially just like the BS does. So, if you're using it in two hands, you're going to treat it like a two-handed weapon. If you're only using one hand, you're going to treat it like a one-handed weapon.
YMMV though, so ask your GM.
Sometimes, you are wielding a two-handed weapon, as an one-handed weapon.
Other times, you are wielding a two-handed weapon, in one hand.
Yes.
There is a difference.
I understand the difference. But the Flambard appears to follow the BS rules and the BS FAQ says it counts as however many hands you're using to wield it. Thus, if you're wielding it in one hand, it's treated as a one-handed weapon.
Like I said, YMMV.
Well, a Bastard Sword is, at it's core, an one-handed weapon, that has it's own special rules to have it count as a two-handed weapon, sometimes.
Right. And the Flambard has its own special rules to follow which say to treat it like a BS which has its own special rules which say to treat it differently based upon the number of hands you're using to wield it.
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Still, at it's core, the Flamabard is a two-handed weapon.
The Bastard Sword has a special caveat, that when wielded in two hands, it counts as a two-handed weapon. This is a rules exception.
When a Bastard Sword is wielded in one hand, it counts as an one-handed weapon, but not because of any special ability, but because it is an one-handed weapon.
So, a Flambard, wielded as a Bastard Sword, counts as two-handed weapon when wield in two hands.
Nothing about wielding a Flambard as a Bastard Sword changes what it counts as, as far as being a two-handed weapon.
Actually, following up on that, how about weapons with the Double property? A simple example would be the Two-Bladed Sword, it's listed as a Two-Handed Weapon, but can be used as if fighting with two weapons.
If it works, you'll gain the benefits of the Fighter Archetype, but without the penalties of -4/-4 for non-light offhand weapon. Thoughts?
Still, at it's core, the Flamabard is a two-handed weapon.
The Bastard Sword has a special caveat, that when wielded in two hands, it counts as a two-handed weapon. This is a rules exception.
When a Bastard Sword is wielded in one hand, it counts as an one-handed weapon, but not because of any special ability, but because it is an one-handed weapon.
So, a Flambard, wielded as a Bastard Sword, counts as two-handed weapon when wield in two hands.
Nothing about wielding a Flambard as a Bastard Sword changes what it counts as, as far as being a two-handed weapon.
And the Flambard has a special caveat, that when wielded in one hand, it counts as a one-handed weapon. This is a rules exception.
This thread is about whether two-handed fighter archetype abilities could be applied to two-handed weapons which are allowed to be wielded in one hand. It wouldn't work for a Flambard because, when wielded in one hand, a Flambard is being wielded as a one-handed weapon.
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And the Flambard has a special caveat, that when wielded in one hand, it counts as a one-handed weapon. This is a rules exception.Still, at it's core, the Flamabard is a two-handed weapon.
The Bastard Sword has a special caveat, that when wielded in two hands, it counts as a two-handed weapon. This is a rules exception.
When a Bastard Sword is wielded in one hand, it counts as an one-handed weapon, but not because of any special ability, but because it is an one-handed weapon.
So, a Flambard, wielded as a Bastard Sword, counts as two-handed weapon when wield in two hands.
Nothing about wielding a Flambard as a Bastard Sword changes what it counts as, as far as being a two-handed weapon.
No.
There is no evidence of the rules exception you note.
A Flambard counts as a two-handed weapon.
Actually, following up on that, how about weapons with the Double property? A simple example would be the Two-Bladed Sword, it's listed as a Two-Handed Weapon, but can be used as if fighting with two weapons.
If it works, you'll gain the benefits of the Fighter Archetype, but without the penalties of -4/-4 for non-light offhand weapon. Thoughts?
That won't do anything for you. They count as two-handed weapons only if you're not using them as a double weapon (but they would benefit from the archetype abilities). If you're using them as double weapons, they count as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
And the Flambard has a special caveat, that when wielded in one hand, it counts as a one-handed weapon. This is a rules exception.Still, at it's core, the Flamabard is a two-handed weapon.
The Bastard Sword has a special caveat, that when wielded in two hands, it counts as a two-handed weapon. This is a rules exception.
When a Bastard Sword is wielded in one hand, it counts as an one-handed weapon, but not because of any special ability, but because it is an one-handed weapon.
So, a Flambard, wielded as a Bastard Sword, counts as two-handed weapon when wield in two hands.
Nothing about wielding a Flambard as a Bastard Sword changes what it counts as, as far as being a two-handed weapon.
No.
There is no evidence of the rules exception you note.
A Flambard counts as a two-handed weapon.
You realize that the particular FAQ you abhor wasn't restricted to just the BS, right? Flambard's entry says it's wielded like a Bastard Sword. That includes the whole "it counts as the kind of weapon based on how many hands you're using to wield it" thing.
So, I can wield a Large Flambard?
You know, we can keep having this discussion over and over again if you want. But, the FAQ will still exist and it will still operate the same way.
It's a two-handed weapon, that never changes. Just like the Bastard Sword is always a one-handed weapon.
Neither of those things change the fact that the weapons of that nature can and do count, for the purposes of particular abilities like those gained by the two-handed fighter archetype, as different types of weapons.
