I have no idea what you're actually asking.
Ah, okay, I didn't know 'Esoteric Training' was a game element, now it makes sense. :)
A couple of Google searches didn't come up with anything, but that doesn't mean much.
Ah, okay, I didn't know 'Esoteric Training' was a game element, now it makes sense. :)
A couple of Google searches didn't come up with anything, but that doesn't mean much.
It's from Inner Sea Magic, page 22.
often require members to master and
train in different subjects. When
your Fame score in a guild reaches
5, choose one spellcasting class you
have at least 1 level in—you increase
your effective caster level in that
class (including the number of spells you know and can
cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to
your total Hit Dice. Single-classed spellcasters should
still pick a class to which this bonus applies, since this
bonus is retroactive.
Esoteric Training (35 Fame): The bonus to caster level
you gain from Eclectic Training increases to +3 (but is still
limited by your total Hit Dice). You may select a second
spellcasting class to gain a +1 bonus to effective
caster level
@ Chevalier83 - I've not encountered another way to get that benefit.
This benefit is, IMOP, totally out of balance with what feats, trait sand items can give you in the game so i think the answer is no.
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you could take another level in your spellcasting class?
(i.e. you can cast 4th level spells even though you are only wizard 5, as you have 7 hit dice).
So it is like getting the '+1 to existing spell class' effect from a prestige class? Boosting caster level, spells per day and spells known up to a max benefit of your actual character level?
Yeah, has anybody actually had the chance to ever use esoteric training? Personally, I would never allow it in my games, considering how powerful it is for any multiclassed caster. Unless there is something equivalent for multiclass martials, this is just too much.
As far as I know, there is NOTHING else that allows that effect.
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I agree with williamoak. Spellcasters are powerful enough* as-is. Letting them dip into other classes without penalty just makes it worse.
*And by powerful enough, I mean too powerful.
I'd allow it if I was actually playing an inner sea campaign and the player jumped through all the hoops to get access to it, but just dumping it on any old caster from anywhere wouldn't make any sense to me.
The stuff you have to do in game to access it and maintain that access is non-trivial, and far outweighs the implied value of a feat, or even two feats. Turning that ability into a feat or an item that anybody anywhere could just plug into a build would be way too much power for essentially zero cost.
Well, actually it depends ;)
The "maintenance" is as hard or as easy as the game master want's it to be.
Fair point. I should have said that as a DM I would treat it as non-trivial. My personal style isn't really a sound basis for making assumptions about how other DM's will/should treat RP-based facets of the game.
Well, actually it depends ;)
The "maintenance" is as hard or as easy as the game master want's it to be. And seriously, from my perspective pathfinder seriously discourages spellcaster to add other classes.
If I want an arcane trickster, I will lose 2-3 class levels and be gimped compared to a pure wizard. Getting at least 1 class level back would be awesome. Surely, I think esoteric training is overpowered (you can basically built a mytic theurge with full spell progression in 2 classes until level 15), but I like the ecletic training very much.
See, this is why I ask if anyone has ever allowed it. While I do see it mentionned a few times on the boards, I have yet to actually hear of a gm saying "yes".
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I've seen this used in our home games once or twice. Thanks to the limitations of action economy, it is not nearly as overpowered as many people believe. All it really does is give multiclassed characters a little boost, particularly the mystic theurge, which is damn near useless without it. It doesn't even stack with things like magical knack when having booth might push your CL over your HD.
Also, you aren't getting spellcasting "for free." Not only is your character now beholden to an organization (for which you must pay dues and pass regular tests) that can strip away your boons, but you are missing out on a large variety of class abilities as well. Spells are terrific, but they aren't all that spellcasters have to offer.
If anything, I think it is a much needed band-aid to an otherwise imperfect system.
See, this is why I ask if anyone has ever allowed it. While I do see it mentionned a few times on the boards, I have yet to actually hear of a gm saying "yes".
It appears that at least one DM has.
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See, this is why I ask if anyone has ever allowed it. While I do see it mentionned a few times on the boards, I have yet to actually hear of a gm saying "yes".It appears that at least one DM has.
Well, the timing on that was pretty ironic...
Sort of a meta-ninja, I guess. :)
And for the record, I have always said yes to players wanting to use this ability, provided they took the whole package (see above), and not just the mechanical benefit. I've not had any problems at all with that decision.
Thanks for the easy answer from 2 years ago RD :)
I personally love it, but he and I are both left to wonder why anyone would ever play a straight wizard up wizard. The only thing he is really missing out on is the 5th-level bonus feat and perhaps some familiar abilities.
Why indeed :)