Combat Casting - Would a Magus ever not want to take it at 1st level?

[Caius The Disillusioned]

Assuming a character that only gets one Feat at 1st level, is there ever a situation/build where you wouldn't give a Magus Combat Casting as its first Feat by default? Considering how every single thing a Magus is likely to do is going to require a Concentration check it seems like something you can't live without.

I'm asking because I recently started playing my first ever Magus and... I didn't do it. I went with Arcane Strike instead. I didn't realize how Concentration-intensive the class was until it was too late and it's made for tough going. I'm going to take it as soon as I hit 3rd level, but since I'm playing the character in Pathfinder Society play (3 adventures at each level: ouch.) it's been very frustrating playing.

So I guess what I'm asking is, do you just take the Feat you want at level 1 like I did and tough it out, or is anything less than Combat Casting just too risky to be worth it?

[Helaman]

I rarely take it on Magi.There are so many good feats to take and that one is mediocre.

There are 2 traits that give you a +2 to concentration, and assuming you have 14 (+2) Int, thats enough to give you a +4 on concentration checks.

There is some planning needed on playing a magi well. Shocking grasp can be cast along with the movement up to the enemy so that next round you can full attack with the spell already up.

You can do an attack then take a 5ft step back, ready to cast next round (more useful if other front liners can also take a 5ft step to make it less rational for the enemy to continue targeting you), then cast start of next round, from 5ft away, take a 5ft step in and attack.

I am sure other players have other options.

When I play a Magus I tend to think like a fighter some rounds and like a wizard on others. Colour spray is a good spell... just use it at the right time and in a way to avoid that AoO rather than needing to cast defensively, just like you would if playing a squishy unarmoured mage.

[Flaming Duck]

Concentration checks are generally easier as you gain caster levels. At low levels, they will be difficult, but you will find it difficult to fail later on, especially since the Magus tops out at 6th level spells. For this reason, most people pass on Combat Casting. However, if your GM is allowing them, you can take Combat Casting early on and retrain the feat using the Ultimate Campaign rules later. Trading it out for Intensify Spell at levels 6+ is popular.

Edit: Didn't register that this was society play. Retraining is allowed between scenarios.

[Timebomb]

Several reasons actually:

• You are going a dex build and want finesse first
  
• You dont plan on taking it at all because it becomes irrelevant at higher levels, and can play around the casting in melee via abundant use of 5' steps and/or charging
  
• Your DM keeps forgetting about concentration checks
  

Those things said, Arcane strike doesn't really shine until you get your CL up a bit and you've gotten more important feats into your build first (I would put arcane strike below combat casting for low-mid level play).

I don't know how buying stuff in PFS works, but if you get to chose what you can buy look out for a Tunic of Careful Casting, Spellguard Bracers, or Gloves of Elvenkind. They all boost your Concentration

[Faskill]

Magus builds are generally very feat intensive. Especially if you're gonna go the Dervish Dancer route.
On the contrary, there are no builds that I know of that would use this feat (and I've played many magi).

Here is why : Early game (levels 1-4) you will be a bit squishy, so it's good to not spam SG. Even if you have a 50% miss chance (assuming you took elf with the racial bonus, which I advise you) on your concentration checks, you don't actually need to cast when adjacent to the target (and very few mooks have reach). What you can do for exemple is declare spell combat, make your attack, 5 step back and cast shield on yourself. Your ennemy decides to attack another ally on the next turn? Bingo, now you can cast offensively shocking grasp, 5 step in and full attack.

Later on, you can get spellguard bracers that allow you to roll twice a conc. check. What's more, by level 5 assuming you've got 18 int with a headband and the +2 elven trait you've already got +11 on your checks, that is an 80% chance to succeed defensively casting a 0th level spell (hello brand or arcane mark for the non hexcrafter (read inferior) magi) and 70% chance on a 1st level spell, not counting the bracers.
And those chances will go up as you take levels.

Last but not least, if you're going dex magus(the best build imo) you're gonna have a very high AC, especially if you use reduce person. At levrl 4 I usually enter combat with 25 AC with reduce person and shield (not counting mirror image). I want to cast a level 2 spell? Sure let's allow that +7 to hit mook to make an Aoo, see if he can hit me.
When you have mirror image, things get even more easy ;)

Hope this helped

[Blackstorm]

I'm currently playing a magus, and didn't take it. I started at 1st level, and I took extra arcane pool. I'm now 7th, and I have little problems to cast defensively, I have +14, because I'm an elf with arcane focus and 20 int. I rolled the stats anyway, so maybe I'm a bit over the pfs standard, but really, you can add your int bonus to concentration checks , taking an equal penalty at to hit. A popular tactic is to spell combat with full attack and then true strike, and next round spell combat with spell first, so you net a +18-int bonus to hit for delivering of spell. I running an hexcrafter, so I have even less space for combat casting, and never took it. I suppose that really depends on your stats, though.

[Dekalinder]

Extra arcane pool is a bad choice at first level, what are you going to use those point on? To me the best first level feats if not dex are thoughtness, weapon focus or improved initiative. PA also not bad at level 1 but you should retrain it later since is bad for mid level magi.

[Faskill]

For what it's worth, I think the best 1st level feat for a str magus is rime spell ;)

[Blackstorm]

Dekalinder wrote:

Extra arcane pool is a bad choice at first level, what are you going to use those point on? To me the best first level feats if not dex are thoughtness, weapon focus or improved initiative. PA also not bad at level 1 but you should retrain it later since is bad for mid level magi.

I'd recalled incorrectly. Now you said that I remember: toughness at 1st and extra ap at 3rd.

[Faskill]

I don't think it's really a good place to discuss the feats you took, unless you want to give the OP bad advice. No offense intended ;)

[Umbranus]

I played one magus and build a second one. Neither of the two had combat casting.

[Caius The Disillusioned]

Thanks for the replies. I'm getting a lot of good perspectives here. I actually wouldn't say I'm squishy at the low levels, save for the fact that the guy who typically runs our Society games is really good at rolling and confirming crits, and at level 1 and 2 that will take down anybody. The Arcane Strike actually has been very useful as I'm dealing a lot of damage myself when I hit. But those Concentration checks are just killing me. But it sounds like if that's the case the best thing to do is just ride it out until the problem goes away, huh?

[Blackstorm]

Faskill wrote:

I don't think it's really a good place to discuss the feats you took, unless you want to give the OP bad advice. No offense intended ;)

You're right. No offense. It wasn't my intention to discuss my feats, I was only made a correction. The point I was pointing out is that I never took combat casting, and I didn't have much problems, although as I said, I'm not playing pfs, so I rolled stats, and that could be a reason for my choice. It really depends.

[Alexander Augunas]

Spell Combat has a version of Combat Casting baked into it. I've never found the feat useful for a Magus as a result.