SO instead of saying you spend $$$gold at store and have enough to make 'potion' I would rather add herbalism skinning and mining and then players can take craft alchemy or armors or weapons or just profession skinning and trapper
Has Anyonr done this
And what would be best way to inpliment it
Some skills maybe professions or craft I'm thinking is Skinner
Herbalism and mining as mentioned above but also looking at maybe butcher. To find meat then I'm sure there's already a cooking skill
Then if they are really hard up on cash lumberjack...
I was thinking these materials (ores herbs leathers meats wood. Or even bones) could be sold as is or made into other things a way to make it more than a hack slash or murber hobos and a way to add depth into my current campaign
So far I was thinking things like butcher Skinner and gathering bones would be based off the size of creature for total ammount possible
Then skill check to see how much you can possibly save/salvage off it and how much is scraps
But for mining and herbalism and (if we chose to add it) lumber Jack
How often do they find a vein or bush or tree or what have you
Any advice would be helpful
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Sounds like you're trying to "MMO-ize" the crafting process. Personally, it sounds like it would be way too complicated and tedious. As a player, if I had to do all of that I would just give up on crafting altogether. Some things already fall into a skills category. For example, Survival already covers hunting and foraging. The profession skill alone is a way to make money.
Without knowing the nature of your campaign it's hard to decipher if this will go along well with your players.
I think it would go over well was looking a couple ideas then I was gonna run it by them (gotta mention that before the thousand comments about ask your players if its what they want)
I figured it help them save their coins on crafting for things that are truely important like liquor women and cards(or dice)
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The main problem I see with the concept is if you take away the crafting costs then you will be essentially altering WBL in the players favor. Unless you are already planning to give them less to begin with, of course.
Also, as Matt mentioned, most luxuries like nice inn rooms and, for lack of a better word, whores are actually fairly cheap compared to crafting costs.
If you really want to take the cost out of the crafting process, then you have to balance it with something, I think. Like dramatically increasing crafting time. You can make a leather pouch in a few minutes if you have a piece of leather. If you have to start by hunting down a deer and go all the way through the process it's more like weeks.
I see where you're going with with this, but it does seem to make the process more complicated, and more skill point intensive, than it already is.
I tend to look at the existing crafting rules as a two-step affair:
1. Get materials
2. Process materials into things
The process of getting materials can be accounted for pretty easily with the existing skills, and the right equipment:
Mining - Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Engineering)
Metallurgist - Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Engineering)
Lumberjack - Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Engineering)
Herbalism - Knowledge (Nature)
Trapping - Knowledge (Nature), Survival
Tanning - Knowledge (Nature)
Skinning - Knowledge (Nature)
After you have the materials then your craft: FOO skill comes into play to let you make the thing you want out of the materials you have collected, or purchased.
Assuming you then want to get paid (by an NPC) for the things you made, you have professions to handle that process on a roll of the dice. If it's just one item, you can handle it with diplomacy and RP the sale.
The advantage to the existing system, in my view at least, is that rather than creating a stack of new skills that you would then have to allocate points to in order to make use of crafting, you use the existing skills for multiple different endeavors.
I'm not saying "no your idea won't work", but I do think it's worth looking at what the consequences of such a change would be, as far as allocating already limited skill points to new skills, rather than taking advantage of the overlapping utility of the current skills.
One more thing ... as far as wbl goes... they have none....
What I mean is for next two campaigns they can't really buy or sell any thing this is why:
First campaign they are evil and taking over world ... well the known world anyway ...
So not many options to buy just pillage and plunder
Next campaign is a holy based one where PC's are required a holy race and goal is to save known world from the undead PC bbeg from first campaign so after world gets taken over no where to buy from...
So I was looking for a way to let them craft and get gear because they can't buy it from stores and can't but mats for crafting from stores
Note: talked to PC's they are ok with this 2 part campaign arc and think it is cool they will be bad guys later lol
Oh ans earlier I mentioned this would help them not murder hobo... technically if they could sell/trade/use any and all parts of a creature wouldn't that promote the sacred art or hobos of the murdering veriety?
And they wont be able to sell more as barter so not really professions either...
Sorry if I'm confusing
If you want to implement this, then I suggest the you use detail-laden part of the process the couple times through, and then simplify after that. Have your group role-play acquiring materials, finding or preparing a work area, and finally doing the work. Make them roll skill checks along the way as you see fit. As they do this more often, you should assume that the group has ironed out the details and what was once a DC 15 to 20 is now a DC 10 to 15 and no longer needs a check. Or rather, the fun part of this process has already been explored and the game is longer served by allowing for random chance to ruin such a mundane part of the game. Perhaps eacch PC ends up with a niche in the process.
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Oh ans earlier I mentioned this would help them not murder hobo... technically if they could sell/trade/use any and all parts of a creature wouldn't that promote the sacred art or hobos of the murdering veriety?
And they wont be able to sell more as barter so not really professions either...
Sorry if I'm confusing
I was making a joke, I couldn't help it. Would your group be OK playing pen and paper mine craft? It just seems like micromanaging resources might become tedious after a while. You could always let them take craft(corpse), OK sorry last one :-D
Okay. If they don't have access to buy or sell anything, but they will be getting random level appropriate loot, then you could just give them the ability to request divine assistance to turn the loot they don't want into loot they do want.
Pray to X and the useless magical widget turns into whatever magical widget they want. Just keep the GP values the same, and limit it to a one for one trade.
Example: A magical sword of awesomeness that would normally cost 5000gp to buy can be turned into a belt of magnificent whatever that would normally cost 5000gp to buy. But it can't be turned into a belt of great whatever that costs 2500gp, and a pair of boots of coolness that cost 2500gp.
Just a thought. Otherwise they'll either be dragging around a cart full of stuff they'll never use, or they'll be leaving incredibly valuable things laying around after a battle.
I was making a joke, I couldn't help it. Would your group be OK playing pen and paper mine craft? It just seems like micromanaging resources might become tedious after a while. You could always let them take craft(corpse), OK sorry last one :-DOh ans earlier I mentioned this would help them not murder hobo... technically if they could sell/trade/use any and all parts of a creature wouldn't that promote the sacred art or hobos of the murdering veriety?
And they wont be able to sell more as barter so not really professions either...
Sorry if I'm confusing
Lol Murder hobo was probably named after me originally due to play style
If he has it its mine if not mine I kill him and its mine if gaurds come than they have shiny armor I like... like I go to inn order soup.."I'm sorry sir we only have stew " nerd rages and murder hobo whole inn
They don't like me over there and this place is so much nicer and I need advice on... *stuff*
Lol wasn't sure where to put it since I was technically looking for advice on how to do this lol but if someone moves it guess that would help
But back to business how much meat can you get off a dead "thing"?
What size "thing" would it take to feed a party of 2 with a good roll?
What size for a bad roll?
What size "thing" would it take to feed a party of 2 with a good roll?
Survival (DC 10) Get along in the wild. Move up to half your overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result exceeds 10.
If you really want to get specific, assume a full grown pig or deer is medium size. (by weight)
Unless you're a completely incompetent butcher, either would feed way more than two people.
Assume a full grown salmon (15 lb) is between tiny and small. Again, unless you screw up the butchery, it'd easily feed two people.
Your answer is somewhere in between to feed two people on a bad roll.
Survival Check DC 10 allows for:
Get along in the wild. Move up to half your overland speed while hunting and foraging (no food or water supplies needed). You can provide food and water for one other person for every 2 points by which your check result exceeds 10.
So, a surival DC 12 would allow you to provide food for two people while moving half of your normal overland movement speed.
Also I agree with Aboniks earlier posts to certain degree, though I would change the skills around a bit like this:
Mining - Knowledge (Engineering), Knowledge (Geography)*, Profession(Miner)
Metallurgist - Maybe Profession (Miner), or Craft (Weapons/Armor)
Lumberjack - Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Woodcutter)
Herbalism - Knowledge (Nature), Survival, Profession (Herbalist)
Trapping & Skinning- Survival, Profession (Trapper)
Tanning - Craft (Leather), Profession (Tanner)
*To know the location of mineral deposits
No need to recreate the skills. All these are already skills that quite literally do these exact things. The only one that isn't really spot on is the metallurgist.
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They don't like me over there and this place is so much nicer and I need advice on... *stuff*
Lol wasn't sure where to put it since I was technically looking for advice on how to do this lol but if someone moves it guess that would help
But back to business how much meat can you get off a dead "thing"?
What size "thing" would it take to feed a party of 2 with a good roll?
What size for a bad roll?
Well realistically a portion of meat is 4oz,three meals a day. That quantity can change depending on caloric needs of the adventurers. Also there would be a time factor dependent on environmental conditions as to how long the meat would last without spoiling, unless it was stored, preserved, or prepared. Seems like a lot of things to keep track of.
Right so don't really need butchering skill then unless the umdead scourge killed most of the Flora and what not bit that would ruin alchemy and herbalism was figuring it would be easier to butcher a giant "animal" and cook it and store it or something I dunno
Right so just simplify it and say a animal a day and they good or one every two days or just ignore the fact that food is important lol
I mean I want each adventurer to count calories ... how many calories should am adventurer eat? Lol
Why do you want to go to this level of detail?
Better yet, do your players want to go to this level of detail?
Personally, I find this idea abhorrent and would hate to a play a game like this that invovles counting calories and only having the option of scrounging to manufacture everything that we would use.
Seriously, talk to your players before you go any further and ask them if they're really interested in doing this sort of thing. While your heart may be all a twitter for Logistics & Ledgers, they may just want to play Big Damn Hero™.
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Why do you want to go to this level of detail?
Better yet, do your players want to go to this level of detail?
Personally, I find this idea abhorrent and would hate to a play a game like this that invovles counting calories and only having the option of scrounging to manufacture everything that we would use.
Seriously, talk to your players before you go any further and ask them if they're really interested in doing this sort of thing before you go any further. While your heart may be all a twitter for Logistics & Ledgers, they may just want to play Big Damn Hero (TM).
+1
Indeed. Unless you're playing with a group composed entirely of off-duty accountants who really just want an excuse to build fantasy-themed spreadsheets, this is potentially going to be a lot of tedium for everybody.
If your players are really down for that, let me know how to get in touch with them. My tax returns can be pretty surreal sometimes.
I'd be tempted to make up decks of "gathering cards" people could draw from (per game day, or per session) to remove the paperwork aspect, and then have a materials list for making various items. Once they've accumulated enough of the required cards, they hand them in and craft the item.
Use the downtime rules in Ultimate Campaign?
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Right so just simplify it and say a animal a day and they good or one every two days or just ignore the fact that food is important lol
I mean I want each adventurer to count calories ... how many calories should am adventurer eat? Lol
I see what u did there :-P
However I will still entertain u. A good gauge of caloric needs would be based off of age, gender, lean muscle mass and activity level. A normal human 1800-2400 calories per day at a normal activity level would be sufficient. Arnold Schwarzenegger in his prime consumed up to 10000 calories per day. That's a lot of pheasant.
I was joking about calories (internet is bane of sarcasm lol)
most of this isn't going down mostly looking what to do for campaign where not people to sell to?
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Or do I just add 'refugee' camps that they can sell to few and far between type thing
Other idea I had was most of good guts are in a nother plane ((or demiplane or different continent)
So maybe a companion or npc that follows em or shows up when needed to sell or buy things
I really not trying to make this difficult just thematic (think that's right word)
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I was joking about calories (internet is bane of sarcasm lol)
most of this isn't going down mostly looking what to do for campaign where not people to sell to?
!
Or do I just add 'refugee' camps that they can sell to few and far between type thingOther idea I had was most of good guts are in a nother plane ((or demiplane or different continent)
So maybe a companion or npc that follows em or shows up when needed to sell or buy thingsI really not trying to make this difficult just thematic (think that's right word)
Lol I gotcha I was just giving you a hard time.
Seriously though half the fun of adventuring is making your character more boss mode, and equipment is one of those ways. I was recently in a game where the only item that I had in my inventory (at level 5)was my own wanted poster. There wasn't 1 wand or healing potion among the entire group. It was terrible once my spells were used up my char was pretty useless. The martials would have fared better if they had proper weapons and armor adequate for their level. Nothing is worse than going into a town and not being able to purchase anything because you are so poor. Well except maybe killing a bbeg and he drops no items -_-
While it may seem fun to challenge your players, it gets old real fast and they begin to feel powerless getting stomped by things they should be able to smash at 2nd level. That game I was in is no more due to two rage-quits in one session.
They will get plenty of drops like normal wont be broke just dunno how to do the equipment and the PC's are going evil mode in a holy country... so.that's why I'm questioning equiptment
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Well if I was evil I would take family members hostage to turn the skilled townsfolk into slaves to make me new shiny gear. Of course that would be after I killed all the non important NPCs to prevent a rebellion. Or I would ally myself with the local evil monsters to be taskmasters over them. Or I would spam charm person on them and make them all my besties and get them to do it. Or just kill everyone and take their crap.
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So could I just ask them for a general list of stuff they want and make sure it drops. Off something
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I've only run an AP and a few one shot scenarios, but I generally will change some of the loot drops to better fit my players themes. If something drops a +1 longsword, then I see no reason as to why I can't change it to a +1 kurkri for the rogue. Also I let my players (and in the few games I'm in) have a wish list. This acts kinda like a grocery list in that the PCs aren't forgetting anything in town and it helps the GM better tailor drops. Don't give them everything they want though or you will find they will be way to OP.
Sometimes I will have random drops of things they will need in like 3 sessions. Say, I know they will be going against something that will disease, poison, or do ability damage. I might drop a couple potions or scrolls of remove disease or poison, possibly a wand of lesser restoration with 10 charges or something. Especially if the group is lacking a cleric.
Once the players see that a few times, you can use it to scare them and just drop some of the same items and they keep expecting similar enemies and never drop them on them :P
So far party is bard and wizard next campaign maybe a paladin and cleric or inquisitor and cleric but might have a wizard familiar due to free leadership feat
So they should be able to craft