| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So, I love the concept of Shadowrun, and I love love LOVE mixing my sci fi and guns with my fantasy. I know others don't, but I think it's great. However, there's something in the setting that just depresses me sometimes. Maybe it's the whole mega-corporations ruling our lives thing, I don't know.
And I've seen attempts to modernize Pathfinder on here, but I dunno, they always seem to be missing something to me. It feels like they're trying to turn the game into Counter Strike: The Tabletop and bury all the Orcs and Dragons and Mages and stuff.
To me, there's no reason why we couldn't keep the kitchen sink adventuring, and why we couldn't keep things reasonably optimistic. Why not have a world like Golarion, except it advanced in years and gave us societies and technological progress much like we have here on earth? So you've got the internet, you've got smartphones, you've got modern governments and guns and tanks and all that. You've got oil rigging and deep sea fishing/exploration, mankind(or Elvenkind, who knows), put a man on the moon.
But there's no reason why this society would be any less dangerous than standard medieval Golarion, just because it's more 'advanced' in some ways. Goblin tribes or vampire packs infesting abandoned apartment complexes in the bad part of town, Kraken or other sea creatures terrorizing oil riggers and cruise ships, airlines having to map careful routes so as not to offend or 'challenge' any dragons out there, and Liches and Doppelgangers being a very real threat to the modern politician.
In this world, you'd still need hearty adventurers, the guys who roll into town strapped with weapons, willing to take jobs that the cops don't have the time to do. It's just, they get paper or plastic money instead of gold(most of the time), and they probably have official Adventurer Licenses, or something like that.
That's what I picture, when people say "Modern Pathfinder", I don't know about anyone else.
One thing I'd want is for combat to be a very real thing. Unless you're a trained, fully-combat class, getting stabbed with a knife or shot with a gun should be a scary thing. And even a 20th level Half-Orc Commando should look at a pack of goblins as a potentially scary thing. Ideally, I wouldn't want a PC to have more than 10, or maybe 15 hitpoints except for extreme circumstances. And I'm not even sure on the hitpoints thing, it doesn't seem fast and potentially brutal enough.
We'd need mobility and agility to be important here, even as important as kevlar and body armor. And stealth needs to be better in this world.
That's all I got for now. I'll ramble more about this tomorrow. Anyway, who's with me?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm also in favor of a modern technology fantasy setting. Although myself am currently trying to rather make a magical-tech setting that still is largely in medieval times, just with some alchemical and magical technologies having developed to and in some cases past present day tech.
the user mdt made a pretty good firearms rewrite including modern weapons, I went over it for my own purposes trying to rebalance it a little for my setting (because I want medieval weapons to stay relevant in my setting), for example I toned down rapid and burst fire and changed the gun touch attacks to only work against some types of armor or natural armor (particularly powerful, or somehow mutated creatures as well as modern manufactured armor work normally against firearms) I will post it up later, as I'm not at home right now.
That's kinda cool, actually.
Which part of my post were you referring to?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am working on a homebrew futuristic/sci-fi setting featuring firearms. This is the mechanic I am currently toying with in regards to fully-automatic firearms:
AUTOFIRE ATTACK
As an attack action, a creature wielding a firearm with an autofire mode can make an autofire attack. This is a ranged weapon attack that expends ammunition in a hail of bullets with each pull of the trigger, but the shooter takes a penalty to his attack roll equal to twice the firearm’s recoil penalty. Performing an autofire attack expends 10 rounds of ammunition from a firearm. If a firearm expends less than the required number of rounds of ammunition, it expends all of its remaining ammunition and makes a burst fire attack, but the shooter still takes a penalty to his attack roll equal to twice the firearm’s recoil penalty. A target damaged by an autofire attack, regardless of how many bullets were fired, is always treated as if it were hit by a single bullet if the firearm is firing ammunition with special abilities.
When making an autofire attack, the shooter gains two rerolls that can be spent to reroll any autofire attack rolls, miss chance rolls, or weapon damage rolls made as part of this attack, taking the best result. This choice is made after the roll is made and before the results are revealed. If the shooter rolls the maximum die result on any of his weapon’s damage dice, he can use a reroll to roll that die again, adding the result as extra damage to his damage total.
Alternatively, the shooter can forgo one autofire reroll to target two creatures adjacent to each other, or both autofire rerolls to target three creatures (no two of which can be more than 10 ft. apart), with a single autofire attack. When firing at multiple targets, the shooter makes a separate attack roll and damage roll for each target.
The miss chance granted by concealment effects, such as fog, smoke, darkness, or similar effects, is reduced by 20% against an autofire attack (minimum 0%). If an autofire attack roll misses its target by 5 or less, the target still takes damage equal to the firearm’s minimum damage, unless it has any degree of cover, the evasion ability, or a similar effect, in which case it takes no damage.
---------------------------------------
A machine gun deals 3d4 damage, (critical hits do wound damage in my game [wound/vigor-like system], so damage is not multiplied. x4 would be fine here), range 60ft, (I don't have misfires in my game, but misfire 1 would be fine), capacity 100, recoil penalty (-2). A machine gun can only ever make autofire attacks and 5-round burst fire attacks, it can't make single-shot attacks. For Pathfinder, this would obviously be an advanced firearm.
---------------------------------------
A burst fire attack is essentially an autofire attack (with three different burst settings; 2-round, 3-round, 5-round), but you only take a penalty to your attack rolls equal to the firearm's recoil penalty (not double), you only get one reroll, 2-round burst can't target more than one creature, and 5-round bursts ignore 10% concealment. Burst fire attacks never do half damage on a missed attack.
---------------------------------------
The main purpose of a fully-automatic attack is to maximize damage potential by putting more bullets into your target. How is that accomplished in an RPG? More successful hits equates to more damage, as does higher average weapon die rolls.
Also, I never liked the whole cone-attack/line-attack/area-attack mechanics most games have for automatic weapons. The spray of bullets released in a fully-automatic burst isn't quite as sporadic as many people think them to be (5-10ft spread, at the extreme), especially not in a cone or 10-foot-by-10-foot area. Their rules also rarely cover situations when the shooter focuses on one target, you always have to make an area attack. The collateral in those situations is insane.
Anyhow, rambling. Thoughts?
Sellsword, I love it, very focused and makes automatics a viable option for people who don't want to murder their friends, loved ones and animals every time they pick up their guns.
Liam, all of those are wonderful ideas, but I'd want technology to be an equally big presence, none of this "Magic is the reason for technology" business. Always hated that.
Threeshades I really liked your ideas for your game world, I wanna play in it, make some sort of tired Wyat Earp sheriff kind of guy.
And then I looked up that dude's gun list, and it's pretty good. The damage is a bit low(by like a bajillion damage), but it's "balanced" and fair for a standard Pathfinder game, which is cool.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
"Anachronistic Adventurers" (Mostly PC content, based mostly on pulp novels and Cold War stories) and The Modern Path (D20 modern turned Pathfinder) are basically built for modern based campaigns.
Modern Path even has an expansion dedicated to modernized fantasy settings. So nothing could stop you from Dragons in board rooms, Ork biker gangs (WAAAGH!), Drow punk rockers and all. Granted, both books were made with D20 Modern and Urban Arcana in mind. Because of that, gun damage is more than standard Pathfinder. If you want a look, they have some of their stuff up on a SRD Wiki for free. Anachronistic Adventurers has more standard PF-friendly guns, if you prefer.
Also, Dias Ex Machina Games makes some killer sci-fi products. Amethyst is great for magic vs. tech (even if you want to ignore the rules for magic/tech cancelling the other out.) And, if you want some cyberpunk/techno-thriller flavor, Neurospasta is another setting by them that I heavily recommend for tinkering (Lots of rules for hacking, robotics, cybernetics, augmentation, and more.)
I've been slowly developing my own modern/futuristic fantasy world myself. It's more or less a blend of things I like (such as Stargate, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Planescape, and Spelljammer)
Also, I'm down with magitech (no biggie that you aren't), so I see no reason why a machine gun can't shoot Fireballs as well? But, that's just me. One of the ways I've had around it is that magic is a gift that only so many people are capable of harnessing without it turning into Wild/Primal magic. As such, technology is built for those who can't handle it (Kinda like the tech in that Avatar the Last Airbender spin-off, Legend of Korra)
In terms of class stuff, I'm not the guy to ask about that (I can't help but recommend Modern Path and Anachronistic Adventurers enough though!) But, I've made tons of Modern themed monsters on my gaming blog. (A lot of them are my takes on D20 Modern creatures)
Oh, I have no problem with magic and technology combining in some areas, like cool magical gun weapons. I just dislike the overall theme of magic replacing technology. Just never been a fan.
I've always wanted to check out AA, they seem like really great, fun books, and now I wanna check out The Modern Path as well.
Thanks for your help, broski.
Oh, I have no problem with magic and technology combining in some areas, like cool magical gun weapons. I just dislike the overall theme of magic replacing technology. Just never been a fan.
I've always wanted to check out AA, they seem like really great, fun books, and now I wanna check out The Modern Path as well.
Thanks for your help, broski.
No prob. I played a cyberpunk game using Modern Path, Amethyst, and Neurospasta some months back (I had the books and wanted to try out cyberpunk with PF, so why not?) It involved a group of urban punks busting a conspiracy against a megacorporation that was kidnapping homeless people for drug testing. (We're not talking Resident Evil here, and just maybe little bit of Age of Steel from Doctor Who, since there was cybernetics involved.) It went great, but I won't dive too much more into details, as it got very controversial.
Aww, but I love controversy!
So, I've been reading over the Modern Path stuff, and it's all very interesting, but it feels clumsy whenever they try to incorporate fantasy stuff into it. Like, it feels like they added all those sample adventures as an afterthought and just went "Uhhh, people like angels and vampires and mages and stuff, right? Give them these skills!"
Still, it was a good read, thank you.
So, I've been reading over the Modern Path stuff, and it's all very interesting, but it feels clumsy whenever they try to incorporate fantasy stuff into it. Like, it feels like they added all those sample adventures as an afterthought and just went "Uhhh, people like angels and vampires and mages and stuff, right? Give them these skills!"
Still, it was a good read, thank you.
I won't deny that. But, that's why they made another book, "Arcana of the Modern World", sadly not on the wiki. It takes the "Modern Hero Class" and makes it an "Arcane Hero Class" (or divine, psionic, or whatever kind of supernatural power you want your character to wield.)
What if magic is powerful, but it's also really unreliable? Like, if you're a Mage or a Wizard, you've gone sterile/barren at some point, your hair is gray at 20, and one of these days it's gonna kill you? So, you're a walking powerhouse, but you're also a timebomb and the clock's ticking.
Technology would look a little more attractive under those circumstances.
No no no, sorcery and magic wouldn't be like a heritage thing. Anyone can do it, but it has its price.
And b is a very attractive option to me, ha ha ha.
But, I do get what you mean.
To me, mages and witches being sterile/barren makes sense. It's why they would always take apprentices in stories, so that they start the kid on magic young, and so that they can pass on their legacy -somehow-.
To me, mages and witches being sterile/barren makes sense. It's why they would always take apprentices in stories, so that they start the kid on magic young, and so that they can pass on their legacy -somehow-.Except you've got ones like merlin who have stories indicating they were essentially immortal and king arthur was trained in magic as a boy in some of them not something you'd do if it was going to make the future king sterile.
But King Arthur wasn't a wizard or anything, he was a Martial. Taking a drink from the river isn't the same as taking a swim.
I don't like the whole genetic inclination thing, myself. I like magic to be this mysterious, terrible thing that you can tap into, you can see a glimpse of, but you can never fully control and never ever understand. But, the experts can still use it in clever ways, once and a while.
No, they're only gonna research what they think they know, what they think the rules are. Just because they've got Bill Nye coats and internets and coffee mugs doesn't mean they know anything about this primal earth force.
I can see the world working. Dragons in our world would be strange and new and exotic, but in this world they've sort of always been there, so the honeymoon stage is over. They're just an accepted fact, along with vamps and elves and all that other crap.
Using magic to me is like petting a tiger. It's only gonna happen if the tiger lets you, and you're never gonna know if this is the time that it flips out on ya.
Right. Magic is well known as being mysterious and scary and barely understood.
I'm personally curious myself, here. Now, let's say this fantasy world encountered its own Renaissance/Industrial period. I'd presume a scientific approach to thinking would intern leak into how magic is approached. But, like in the many bounds of science, it's simply impossible for us to know everything. New magical discoveries should logically be unstable (Do you know how many times the locomotive failed in its early stages?) However, older discovers from bygone eras still held dear today should be easy to use. Now, eldritch power lost to space and time should be just as mysterious as a new discovery, as one has to experiment with it just like it was never known about. I'd presume that most of the researches of the realm don't forget what they learn over night (I've always hated that explanation of D&D Magic BTW) Just my two cents. I personally see misunderstood magic as a better fit for a Sword & Sorcery era, that or a World of Darkness hidden magic type of setting... and even then, supernaturals would comprehend it.
That said, magic can still be mysterious. Hell, our cosmos is very mysterious! We pretend to know about the universe, when we're just an insignificant grain of sand. Our knowledge is but a fragment. Perhaps the means of cracking the secrets of magic have improved thanks to newer science, technology, and occult research; but we've just scraped the surface. Perhaps we've made countless advances in it, but there's drawbacks to using it too much (With a go to example, a la BioShock: "Plasmids changed everything. They destroyed our bodies, our minds; we couldn't handle it. Best friends butchering one another, babies strangled in cribs... the whole city went to Hell.")
"That said, magic can still be mysterious. Hell, our cosmos is very mysterious! We pretend to know about the universe, when we're just an insignificant grain of sand."
Yes.
"Our knowledge is but a fragment. Perhaps the means of cracking the secrets of magic have improved thanks to newer science, technology, and occult research; but we've just scraped the surface."
Yes!
"Perhaps we've made countless advances in it, but there's drawbacks to using it too much."
YES! See, you get me. I like this.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One thing I'd want is for combat to be a very real thing. Unless you're a trained, fully-combat class, getting stabbed with a knife or shot with a gun should be a scary thing. And even a 20th level Half-Orc Commando should look at a pack of goblins as a potentially scary thing. Ideally, I wouldn't want a PC to have more than 10, or maybe 15 hitpoints except for extreme circumstances. And I'm not even sure on the hitpoints thing, it doesn't seem fast and potentially brutal enough.
If you want to look at d20 Modern for inspiration, note they used the Massive Damage Threshold (MAS) concept -- your MAS was your Constitution score, plus bonuses from abilities or feats.
If any lethal damage exceeded your MAS, you needed to make a Fortitude save versus massive damage or die/be dying (can't remember which). Nonlethal damage worked with MAS as well--if nonlethal damage exceeded MAS, you saved or were unconscious, IIRC.
That means an attack that deals a mere 10 points of damage might have a good chance of killing an average human, even if his hit points are much higher. Likewise someone skilled with unarmed combat could set up a knockout blow very easily.
People who often criticize the damage levels of weapons in d20Modern tended to ignore this rather crucial shift in gameplay. It could, depending, actually be much more lethal game, and firearms could often easily take out an average human in one shot with a decent damage roll, regardless of HP or character level.
You may not want to use that exact system, but something to consider.
That's all I got for now. I'll ramble more about this tomorrow. Anyway, who's with me?
I've been working on a "Pathfinderized d20 Modern" in my spare time for awhile, but I'm afraid my intention has been focusing on using the Pathfinder RULES as part of an attempt to revise d20 Modern, which I liked for being default-set on contemporary (or future) Earth, and I'm more interested in a generic d20-based system for use in a wide variety of campaigns.
I don't play that much in fantasy Golarion save for PBPs here and I'm not that much more interested in a technological one. However, I've often assumed I am in the minority and that what most people actually want is a Might and Magic style magic meets crazy tech urban fantasy world, so you are likely to garner a lot of support.
You know DQ, you showed me d20 Modern before and I really enjoyed it, despite not playing a game of it yet(Actually I ran one and it went well!), it's one of my favorite systems now.
Thank you for that, actually.
Arise, dead thread, for a new Strange Aeon beings, and Starfinder draws night . . . .
Hmmm. Didn't work.
Oh wait, it's not my creation . . . .
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm currently working on a setting and modules I intend to publish called Gothic Western where guns are everywhere (and relatively cheap), and every class gets a gun-toting archetype. While there will be Gatling guns and advanced artillery, most people only shoot revolvers, rifles or shot guns. Of course the setting has a Cthulhu-esque quality so this setting is designed for Occult classes and horror adventures (expect lots of corruptions, including new corruptions) - so guns aren't the end all, be all, though they are a major aspect of the setting.
Already have a 1st level module completely written, though since our corruption rules were slightly different than Horror Adventures, we are currently adjusting our corruption rules to be compatible with HA. The module is called Unclean Brand, and features rustled cattle that have had an eldritch sigil branded on them and changing them into other worldly beasts.