Pinning someone is something you may do as part of the check to maintain the grapple, so no, he could not use the bonus maneuver from Flurry to pin the target.
Only the bonus maneuver granted by Flurry of Maneuvers can be used to make the grapple check, though it is ambiguous as to when the bonus maneuver occurs during your full attack.
yes you can.
You can maintain the grapple as a standard action. Now the manuever master can do multiple standard action costing manueveres in a turn.
If CrystalSpellblade was correct greater grapple would have much less use.
No, you can't. Grappling someone, and making the grapple check to maintain the grapple (and pin) are not the same thing. A monster with multiple natural attacks with the grab ability can't grapple and pin during a single full attack either.
Greater Grapple allows you to maintain as a move action.
No, you can't. Grappling someone, and making the grapple check to maintain the grapple (and pin) are not the same thing. A monster with multiple natural attacks with the grab ability can't grapple and pin during a single full attack either.
Greater Grapple allows you to maintain as a move action.
You are correct about a monster not being able to. They spent their standard action attacking. To pin you need to spend another standard action or have an ability that the manuever master has that can use standard action manuever as an attack action.
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second maneuver from the flurry, pin it?
He can't grapple with his Full Attack melee attacks, but the additional attack(s) from the Flurry of Maneuvers can be used to grapple.
So at higher level when you gain a second maneuver, you can.
You can also with Greater Grapple by doing a Standard grapple and then a move grapple.
What do you mean only the bonus maneuver can be used?At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action.
An additional maneuver, meaning he could use one, grapple, then his bonus one to do any of the actions someone can do when they maintain a grapple, like pin, or damage, or move. Is everyone trying to say that making a combat maneuver check to maintain a grapple on your turn isn't a combat maneuver?
Because grappling isn't an attack, it's a standard action.
Allright, "attack" was being used as shorthand for "combat maneuver that can be used in place of an attack". Which grapple isn't. Before level 8, the Maneuver Master cannot make 2 grapple checks during a Flurry of Maneuvers.
I have learned from this thread, though, that the higher-level MM can indeed use his second maneuver to pin a grappled target.
Because grappling isn't an attack, it's a standard action.
What do you mean only the bonus maneuver can be used?At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action.
An additional maneuver, meaning he could use one, grapple, then his bonus one to do any of the actions someone can do when they maintain a grapple, like pin, or damage, or move. Is everyone trying to say that making a combat maneuver check to maintain a grapple on your turn isn't a combat maneuver?
Point Being? The ability lets you make two combat maneuvers in one turn as a full attack action.
this isnt entirely correct. fom allows you to declair a full attack and stack additional maneuvers. however it doesnt change how maneuvers are applied except for the additional maneuver at the end.
this means at low level the mm monk can FOM and gets one normal attack + one additional maneuver it has no means to double maneuver until lvl 8.
Where are you getting this information? There is nowhere in the ability that says when using a maneuver in place of an attack, it says that as a Full Attack action, you can make one additional maneuver. As in a flurry of maneuvers. I feel like it would specify if the ability applied to only Sunder, Disarm, and Trip.Allright, "attack" was being used as shorthand for "combat maneuver that can be used in place of an attack". Which grapple isn't. Before level 8, the Maneuver Master cannot make 2 grapple checks during a Flurry of Maneuvers.
I have learned from this thread, though, that the higher-level MM can indeed use his second maneuver to pin a grappled target.
Ah, I think I see our disagreement here. I'm not saying that the bonus maneuver from FOM can't be a grapple. It can.
I'm saying that the regular attack can't be a grapple.
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You do get an additional Maneuver, and that additional Maneuver, can be any Maneuver.
The attacks before that additional Maneuver, must be attacks that can be done as part of a Full Attack, and not a Standard Action.
So, the only Maneuvers, that can be done during those initial attacks, are Disarm, Sunder, or Trip.
But what regular attack are you talking about? The ability states that by making your action a full attack action, you get to do an ADDITIONAL maneuver, meaning you make a maneuver, then a second maneuver. If you can only do one maneuver with it, it is hardly a flurry of maneuvers.Where are you getting this information? There is nowhere in the ability that says when using a maneuver in place of an attack, it says that as a Full Attack action, you can make one additional maneuver. As in a flurry of maneuvers. I feel like it would specify if the ability applied to only Sunder, Disarm, and Trip.Allright, "attack" was being used as shorthand for "combat maneuver that can be used in place of an attack". Which grapple isn't. Before level 8, the Maneuver Master cannot make 2 grapple checks during a Flurry of Maneuvers.
I have learned from this thread, though, that the higher-level MM can indeed use his second maneuver to pin a grappled target.
Ah, I think I see our disagreement here. I'm not saying that the bonus maneuver from FOM can't be a grapple. It can.
I'm saying that the regular attack can't be a grapple.
A grapple maneuver is not a full attack. A full attack is a specific thing. A first level maneuver master can make one attack and one maneuver during a flurry of maneuvers. The attack can be replaced by any maneuver that can replace an attack (disarm, trip, etc.) but not a grapple maneuver. Normally a grapple maneuver is a standard action.
But what regular attack are you talking about? The ability states that by making your action a full attack action, you get to do an ADDITIONAL maneuver, meaning you make a maneuver, then a second maneuver. If you can only do one maneuver with it, it is hardly a flurry of maneuvers.Where are you getting this information? There is nowhere in the ability that says when using a maneuver in place of an attack, it says that as a Full Attack action, you can make one additional maneuver. As in a flurry of maneuvers. I feel like it would specify if the ability applied to only Sunder, Disarm, and Trip.Allright, "attack" was being used as shorthand for "combat maneuver that can be used in place of an attack". Which grapple isn't. Before level 8, the Maneuver Master cannot make 2 grapple checks during a Flurry of Maneuvers.
I have learned from this thread, though, that the higher-level MM can indeed use his second maneuver to pin a grappled target.
Ah, I think I see our disagreement here. I'm not saying that the bonus maneuver from FOM can't be a grapple. It can.
I'm saying that the regular attack can't be a grapple.
The Bonus Maneuver is the only maneuver in your Full-Attack Action that can use the Standard Action. A level 1 monk could full-attack, do 1 unarmed strike and use his bonus maneuver to grapple. He could not grapple, then grapple again as only the bonus maneuver is allowed to be any maneuver, regardless is it takes the place of an attack or standard action.
And if you have the grab ability? Can you then do your attack, grab as part of the attack, and pin as a maneuver master?