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Questions in order:
1.) Yes the lists are off kilter.
2.) It may be a mistake, or it may be intentional.
3.) I wouldn't hold your breath for it to be fixed. That would be too much like throwing the Monk a bone.
4.) No, you can't swap Slow Fall out at every level it appears, nor may you pick and choose when to swap it. You've got to swap it at 4th and then it's gone.
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Not at all. The Qinggong archetype is vastly superior to all the other monk archetypes out there. Not only does it not really cost you anything to take, but it combines with other archetypes in pretty powerful ways.
When combined with Drunken Master, it allows you to cast spells all day long.
When combined with Sensei, it allows you to spend one ki point and have the entire party cast the same spell.
I know you were trying to make a cheap dig at monks (which isn't really warranted since they were given styles a couple years ago), but I was specifically talking about the archetype.
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There is no "overpowered" Monk archetypes.
It is overpowered compared to the other monk archetypes, as it has no downside, and a very large upside.
And it's arguably one of the most archetypes in the game even so.
At 12th level, a monk can have a persistent barkskin (+5 to AC) and stone shield (+4 AC) to be very difficult to hit, or the ability to permanently in gaseous form while still retaining the ability to breathe 12d6 fire cones every round on foes from above. Or can give his entire party the benefits of a Restoration spell (or neutralize poison or remove disease or barkskin) a dozen times per day. Not even a 12th level cleric can do that.
Everyone can use Style feats, and the ones that worked for the Monk, like Crane Style, keep getting nerfed left and right.
Anyone can technically use Style feats, but the feat requirements for things like the Dragon Style chain means that they effectively have to be a monk, or at least a monk dip.
"Persistent"...how are you using metamagic with an SLA again?
And you overestimate both the power of Gaseous Form and 12d6 damage.
Yes, it has no downside. Good. It wouldn't be worth taking if it did. You can swap out some of your s@+&ty abilities for stuff actually worth using.
It combines with every other archetype for a reason...so it's not a choice between being a decent Monk and having the archetype you want.
It's one of the few good things Paizo's done with relation to the Monk.
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>"Persistent"...how are you using metamagic with an SLA again?
Persistent in that you have a 24 hour duration, not the metamagic feat, which doesn't even make spells persistent any more in PF. You get unlimited ki points via drunken master.
>And you overestimate both the power of Gaseous Form and 12d6 damage.
12d6 every round, all day long, to an area of effect, is actually quite good. All while flying with DR 10/magic.
To put it in perspective, A +1 invulnerability chain shirt is a 16k magic item that you're sacrificing 3 points of AC to get, for only half the DR/magic.
>Yes, it has no downside. Good. It wouldn't be worth taking if it did. You can swap out some of your s#+&ty abilities for stuff actually worth using.
Something with no downsides is not balanced, enough said.
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Just going to throw my two cents in here. Being "overpowered compared to other monk archetypes" is not saying much. It is not saying much at aaaaaaaaaalllll. That's like saying an airsoft rifle is overpowered compared to a water gun. Monks need all the help they can frickin' get. What you get the choice of with qinggong is going from the upper end of suck to the low end of mediocre.
Something with no downsides is not balanced, enough said.
Wrong. Overpowered-ness is a relative value, not an absolute one.
Compared to many other classes, it is still underpowered.
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Fedorchik wrote:
>Technically speaking, there is a penalty for consuming large amounts of alcohol.
There are ways around it.
> 12th level cleric should be able to much better.
No 12th level cleric can cast 44 full restorations / barkskin / neutralize poison / remove diseases in a day. You have a very limited number of options... but you're still a monk who can flurry at full BAB all day long.
>BTW, what is Stone Shield? And why is it relevant to Qinggong Monk?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/stone-shield
Runjin wrote:
>Wrong. Overpowered-ness is a relative value, not an absolute one.
Incorrect. An overpowered option is one that is completely dominant over all other choices. If every monk in the world is a qinggong monk (and there's no reason why they would not be), then it is an overpowered option.
All choices must involve some form of cost/benefit tradeoff to be balanced.
TheBeard wrote:
>What you get the choice of with qinggong is going from the upper end of suck to the low end of mediocre.
If you run the numbers on a monk, they're actually pretty competitive. Flurry and ki flurry put up a lot of numbers on the board, even if they are not #1, and they've got a lot of utility going on for them, as well as the best saves in the game and evasion.
Runjin wrote:
>Wrong. Overpowered-ness is a relative value, not an absolute one.Incorrect. An overpowered option is one that is completely dominant over all other choices. If every monk in the world is a qinggong monk (and there's no reason why they would not be), then it is an overpowered option.
All choices must involve some form of cost/benefit tradeoff to be balanced.
No, they mustn't.
If the original is underpowered, giving it a no trade-off boost does not make it overpowered.
So, every Monk being a Qinggong Monk does not make it overpowered. It makes the Qinggong Monk an optimal Monk.
If Monk suddenly became the single most optimal CLASS because of this, it would be OP.
But that's not the case.