I know about the ruling about spell-like abilities counting as spellcasting for prc prereqs (which I disagree with, but whatever), but do they count as spontaneous or prepared spells?
IMO, none of them. Do you have an example to give us some light on your situation ?
I'm unsure if there was a proper answer for this.
I believe, the idea went something along the lines of this:
There is no prestiege class that demands being able to "prepare" a certain spell slot. Only to be able to cast a certain spell slot. And since there is no preparation involved with SLA it counts as spontaneous, which some prestiege classes do require (IIRC). So I believe it can effectively count as both.
Can you be more specific about what class (or whatever) you're trying to enter/use?
I've been through the Core Rulebook FAQ, and I'm pretty sure you can't consider SLA as spontaneous casting:
You can't modify a SLA with a metamagic feat/rod, you can't use a SLA to use a wand or something...
And here's my best catch:
Prestige Class Requirements: If a prestige class requires 5 ranks in a skill and I have 6 ranks in that skill, do I still meet the requirements?
[...]
However, spellcasting ability is not inclusive: it is possible (mainly through the use of spell-like abilities) to be able to cast 3rd-level spells but not 2nd-level spells. If you can only cast 3rd-level spells, that does not meet the requirement of "able to cast 2nd-level spells."
You can cast a X-level spell, but because you can't treat it as a spell know (spell-triggers and stuff), I don't think you can be considered as casting it spontaneously.
Still, it's a good question.
They don't count as either one.
All that FAQ means is that some abilities are continuous and some are discrete.
Having 6 skill ranks includes having 5 skill ranks. Just because you have more than required doesn't mean you no longer meet the requirement.
But, spellcasting is not continuous. Just because you have access to 9th level spells doesn't necessarily mena you have access to lower spell level casting ability (this is pretty much just SLAs). Such as a Efreeti. They have Wish as SLA which counts as a 9th level SLA. However, just because they have that doesn't mean they also count as having access to 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 spells (though they do have more SLAs that will count as some of those).
And I believe if you have it SLA you could treat is as spell known for spell trigger items, though I don't have anything to back that up. Nothing in that FAQ addresses that.
A SLA doesn't work for spell-trigger or spell-completion.
" Spell-Like Abilities as Spells: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as having that spell on its spell list for the purpose of activating spell completion or spell trigger items?
No. A spell-like ability is not a spell, having a spell-like ability is not part of a class's spell list, and therefore doesn't give the creature the ability to activate spell completion or spell trigger items.
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/22/11"
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I'm unsure if there was a proper answer for this.
I believe, the idea went something along the lines of this:
There is no prestiege class that demands being able to "prepare" a certain spell slot. Only to be able to cast a certain spell slot. And since there is no preparation involved with SLA it counts as spontaneous, which some prestiege classes do require (IIRC). So I believe it can effectively count as both.Can you be more specific about what class (or whatever) you're trying to enter/use?
I have seen (3.5) PrCs that require you to be able to "prepare and cast spells of X level" or somesuch wording. I don't know if any such PrCs exist in pathfinder, although I suspect not.
I would not count SLAs as spontaneous casting myself, but I wouldn't have thought they could be used for PrCs at all, so my opinions are suspect.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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The most frequent reason I've seen for people asking the OP's question is for Dragon Disciple, but in that case it's important to note that DD does not actually require "spontaneous" spellcasting. Rather, you have to be able to cast "without preparation".
You certainly don't prepare SLAs, so you're good.
A SLA doesn't work for spell-trigger or spell-completion.
" Spell-Like Abilities as Spells: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as having that spell on its spell list for the purpose of activating spell completion or spell trigger items?
No. A spell-like ability is not a spell, having a spell-like ability is not part of a class's spell list, and therefore doesn't give the creature the ability to activate spell completion or spell trigger items.
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/22/11"
Cool. Honestly, that is the intuitive answer to me. But that intuitive response also included that SLAs wouldn't help you qualify for anything else either. Which is not the case. I think the ruling on SLA was out of place in regards to qualifing for things, but thats just my opinion.
In any event, as Ryric mentions, I don't recall seeing any Paizo prestiege classes that require being able to prepare spells, only cast spells of a certain level.
Actually, there is at least one PrC with the "Ability to prepare..."
It's the Magaambyan Arcanist from Paths of Prestige (it's called "Collegiate Arcanist" on the d20pfsrd site.
So far a grand total of 2 classes the discriminate about prepared versus spontaneous?
The Dragon Disciple, which doesn't specify spontaneous. It only specifies "not prepared", which a SLA would count as. And a class from a supplemental book.
Ehhhh, still not worried about it.
Thanks for the responses. Dragon Disciple was indeed what I was looking at. Trying to do an alchemist/barbarian into DD using a race with a 1st lvl SLA (probably Duergar) and just wondering if that would be legal by RAW.
Somehow I automatically thought "without preparation = spontaneous" thus my confusion.
Thanks for the responses. Dragon Disciple was indeed what I was looking at. Trying to do an alchemist/barbarian into DD using a race with a 1st lvl SLA (probably Duergar) and just wondering if that would be legal by RAW.
Somehow I automatically thought "without preparation = spontaneous" thus my confusion.
Ehhh....I don't think Dragon Disciple will advance your ability to prepare alchemist extracts. After all, they're extracts, not spells. So, you'd be losing out on that part of the Dragon Disciple, because you would have nothing to advance.
But Enlarge Person is a first level spell, so it would count as a 1st to allow access to Dragon Disciple. You really should take at least one level of a arcane spell casting class to get the most bang for your buck out of taking Dragon Disciple.
Ehhh....I don't think Dragon Disciple will advance your ability to prepare alchemist extracts. After all, they're extracts, not spells. So, you'd be losing out on that part of the Dragon Disciple, because you would have nothing to advance.
But Enlarge Person is a first level spell, so it would count as a 1st to allow access to Dragon Disciple. You really should take at least one level of a arcane spell casting class to get the most bang for your buck out of taking Dragon Disciple.
Not worried about losing extracts, just wanna combine mutagen & rage STR bonuses and beat the heck out of things. Plus, I haven't seen this version of a DD build before & I wanna try something new - even if it isn't "optimal".
Oh! You know what would work well! The bloodrager from the advanced class guide. If I recall correctly it gets some spells as well as rage.
sigh.
I wish my DM was as open-minded as EVERYONE ELSE'S seems to be about allowing the playtest stuff, but she's not. Also, still not worried about having spells/extracts.
Thanks for the suggestion 'tho.