synthesist and feats

[darthspader]

hey guys i have a question.

first off i realize the DM rules is generally law and they can house rule what they want.

my current DM has stated "core rules" nothing tweaked, stick to the rules of the book/s. with that in mind, he is allowing a synthisist.

where we get into a differing of opinion is weather or not i can make use of monster feats. in particular, the improved natural attack, and multi attack feats. the requirements are "natural weapons" plus the BAB of +4 on imp attack.

the DMs argument is that the base guy, my "dude" dosent have a natural attack, and therefore cant take the feats. my argument, on the other hand is when he is wearing the eidolon he DOES have natural attacks, and since normally the eidolon WOULD qualify for those if it was not a worn or bonded creature, why is it diffirent?

what im looking for here is something in the rules that supports either stance, aside from the "DM is god, may house rule, etc" - once i present this if the stance is unchanged, then so be it - ive no intent of pushing matters. i just like to have facts and research done before making a case like this.

[MC Templar]

I think the 'one synthesist thread to rule them all' thread linked a conversation where a Dev covered the 'power attack' feat for a synth that doesn't meet the strength requirement without the eidolon, and the suggested ruling, was, you may take the feat but may not use it, nor any subsequent feat it is a prerequisite for, when your are out of your eidolon and no longer meet the requirements.

As far as a hard-and-fast in the rulebooks citing that you can take those feats... sorry, I don't think that exists for player to take any monster feats, let alone ones they only qualify for if you grease the rules up first.

[Korthis]

Some races have natural attacks, some classes can give u natural attacks and then your guy has them

[darthspader]

so heres a question: i saw in another thread someplace that a guy was using an alchemist with various mixes to get essentially what im trying to do, one of the things he mentiones, is at 8th lvl he can use beast form 1 as part of his mutagen. how exactly? i cant find how that works. also, when using beast form he mentions he can just pick the abilities he wants, but again i dont know how this works, since i read it like you pick an animal, and adopt the traits like the animal. clarification would be nice on how that works.

[LazarX]

The Beast Form Mutagen follows the exact same rules as a spellcaster using the spell. Just pretend the alchemist is a druid or wizard, and work on it that way.

[Chance Wade]

Instead of starting a new thread I'll just ask this here.

I've been looking around the forums for an answer but I can't find anything so it's probably obvious, but my question is in regards to the ability scores of the synthesist.

When I summon my eidolon and use its physical ability scores, do these count as temporary increases to my ability scores or permanent? On one hand the effects likely last less than 24 hours, but on the other hand synthesist scores aren't increased, they're replaced.

[MurphysParadox]

Your ability scores are not modified and remain the same boring numbers as always. However, when joined, anything that requires a physical ability score (attacking, damage, skill checks, AC, etc) will use the eidolon's ability score instead of your own. It isn't modifying your actual stats.

[Chance Wade]

MurphysParadox wrote:

Your ability scores are not modified and remain the same boring numbers as always. However, when joined, anything that requires a physical ability score (attacking, damage, skill checks, AC, etc) will use the eidolon's ability score instead of your own. It isn't modifying your actual stats.

So is there any mechanical difference between replacing my physical ability scores or "using" my eidolon's ability scores? Like if I'm in my fused form are there still things I would use my base physical forms for (other than hp)?

[MurphysParadox]

I cannot think of anything specifically. Maybe something like the spell phantasmal killer (which involves two saves or you die) or an incorporeal attack? It is hazy like most of this archetype and prone to GM interpretation. One could argue that something like cloudkill would effect the summoner since he still has to breath while in there. Same with holding your breath underwater.

[darthspader]

so im guessing extracts are one potion, such as beastform, and the mtagen is a second one? IE: if i want to get my str boost, i take the mutagen, then i can take the beastform next turn to get fly/dark vision/climb or whatever? or is it an all in one shot?