| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hi folks, we're comming up on this most possibly in the next session (this weekend), and just wanted your input on how the fight went... And I'm trying to be vague on the details as not to ruin it for those who have not yet played through this and are reading the question.
But I am talking about the very last fight of the sixth book... :)
Was it complicated for you? (Lots of high level combattants with LOTS of special abilities each, looks like a handfull to me...)
Was there enough room to maneuver? (With all those participants in the fight, the fight area seems a little small to me...)
Any neat stuff that happened in your campaign?
Any tips? lol
Thanks!!
Ultradan
If you're the DM I would be looking on this board for alternate versions of the BBEG. I ran her as is from the book and that was my biggest regret of the campaign.
Details:
Despite that it was a memorable and great fight it just could've been better if I had used an alternate build than the one given.
I had her and her simulacrums stated up as pre-nerf bat Sound Strikers. Worked well, but it was a LOT of dice rolling. The party was mega buffed up going in, so to counter I overloaded her hit points. The weird words let me not worry about trying to use mind-affecting abilities and just mow down characters.
I think if I ever run CotCT a third time, however, I would go with the three stage fight concept I read somewhere on these boards. Basically they fight her and win, only for her to be pulled back into the pool and emerge as a different version of Ileosa a couple times. Give a few rounds in between to let the party recover between stages (assuming they've taken care of the mooks). I think it would be more dramatic and I wouldn't have to cheat on hit points. Plus I could have a bard Ileosa, a sorc/dragon disciple Ileosa, and an I-don't-know-what-yet Ileosa all in one fight. Figure that would keep the players on their toes.
I have not run it yet, but my plan is somewhat similar to what Knick suggested.
First phase will be Ileosa and minions. Second will be some different minions (summons or something) and a buffed, slightly different Ileosa. Final phase will be Ileosa's mind merging with the dragon's and the PCs having to throw down with the temporarily-reborn Kazavon (or rather my homebrew setting's replacement thereof).
I'm planning on a three-stage fight as well. It will involve a kind of 'video game' mechanic in that I have two different versions of Ileosa built.
The first stage will involve Ileosa staying inside the Blood Bubble because she can target the PCs with her spells, but they can't directly target her with theirs. They could use AoEs, but she's pretty defensive in there.
After a couple of rounds, Ileosa will come out of the Blood either furious at the party for interfering, or confident in her victory. At this point the players can attack her directly.
If she takes too much damage, then, at this point, the third stage activates. Furious at her failure, the remnants of Kazavon in the Crown will use the magic of the Blood to force her to undergo a change, enhancing her with a more draconinc aspect. Essentially, I just change character sheets. The original Ileosa is a full 20th level Sound Striker Bard, the second is a Dragon Disciple Bard that focuses on melee.
I might add a fourth stage here, depending on how the players react. The whole 'forced rebirth of Kazavon' thing will occur. If they players don't stop him, then some form of Kazavon will have returned. The players will have to fight this Kazavon aspect or it will escape to seek out his relics.
If the players retreat, then they will actually be slightly better off as Ileosa will be over-confident and skip the whole first stage. If it progresses far enough to the Draconic transformation, she will still be furious enough and addled by her rage that she directly confronts them as much as possible, wanting to see their blood dripping from her claws.
I started a thread a while back asking for advice on Ileosa where we came up with the above idea of a multi-stage fight. What works for me may not work for others as my table has a large number of players.
My Sound Striker Ileosa (Stage 1 and 2)
Sound Striker Ileosa Simulacrum
Dragon Disciple Ileosa (Stage 3, unbuffed)
Dragon Disciple Ileosa (Stage 3, buffed)
I have not yet come up with stats for the 'reborn' Kazavon, as I'm still debating the best way to do that. However, I'm in no hurry as my table is currently in hiatus as I have taken on my sister's two nephews while she seeks medical help.
I'm getting ready for this final encounter and a chilling thought occurred to me: Would a simple silence spell completely shut Ileosa down?
I haven't looked through all her spells but I would expect most have a verbal component, including dispel magic. Certainly her bardic abilities must have an audible component, right?
I thought I read somewhere that all bard spells have a verbal (/audible?) component, is this true?
I understand protection from evil is a problem for her, but at least she can use dispel magic against that.
Is this a problem? Is there a way to counter it? Should I care?
Yes, indeed, Silence spells pose huge threats to Bards as all of their spells have audible components, and in fact, are forbidden from benefiting from the Silent Spell metamagic feat.
However, like Protection from Evil, Silence can be dispelled, which shouldn't be too difficult, considering her abundance of simulacrums.
|
I could get out the actual rolls and paperwork but in our campaign it went like this:
We teleported to the location, and were shunted off into the jungle in random directions from each other.
After the slight "snafu", we (three rogue shadow dancers) entered the compound. We decided that the giant squid was a "one round problem" and attacked it (inside joke now). And guess what... we did kill it in one round (surprise round doesn't count, right?). We tried to take some of the treasure after getting into the "vault" thingie, and the ghasts came down. We called shades to distract them while we set up a cube of force around the vault, trapping the ghasts. We would handle them later.
We made our way upstairs avoiding the rest of the monsters (the toad thingies... they were just minding their own business, right?). We used the prepped version of Queenie II and she was in the blood... however, we ranged attack sneak attacked because, well, we all have insane stealth abilities as well as HIPS. We wounded her, and well, she started to regen. We attacked again, and knocked her down under the "run" limit in the same round she took over one of our minds (Charm Person or whatever, against our low Wil save lowered by the spell that reduces saves to begin with). Anyway, because we hit the "run" threshold, she took off. We couldn't follow (we're not mages, don't have divination to see where she went, and well, generally couldn't teleport out anyway). We got our Charmed member back, and then...
Well, right about there we were all in the blood swarm/pool. Since I had just finished reading about Mythic stuff, I used this as an excuse to elevate us all to mythic rank 1 (basically "we" completed part of her ascension ritual by accidentally being in the right place at the wrong time). So we went through that... and technically defeated her/saved Korvosa (she fled to Cheliax).
So the end of the adventure had her defeated/driven off. But not killed. We got Mythic status (for completing an entire campaign set), and went on to get told by four deities to go save Cheliax (non-descript what exactly they wanted...as deities go).
We took a little time off, to go set up a town by the two keeps we gained from the Tarrot Deck of Many Things, as well as check on our holdings in Falcon's Hollow and Bloodsworn Vale. Korvosa held an election in which we pretty well abstained from supporting any candidate (leading to a rogue winning the election).
We trod off towards Cheliax, first to get the crown back. With our newly granted powers we were able to defeat the queen after surprising her in her bed chambers this time. (ps. this was also after we got plane shifted trying to get into the compound... and hanging out in pharasma's graveyard... and teleporting to the moon... and "killing" Ender's Voice... and falling off to Abadar's area, and using our favor from earlier in the RoTRL to get to talk with a person who could get us back home).
Anyway, in the end, the crown is now buried a few hundred miles off the coast of Korvosa, in a solid adamantine block (thank you Bloodsworn Vale for the resources), a few hundred feet under the ocean's floor... with a cube of force around it... As safe as we could make it, I guess.
Now to "go save Cheliax from House Thrune." Whatever the heck that was supposed to mean to a party of 3 CG shadowdancing rogues...
You guys must have had a damned good stealth skill to make it through Scarwall with 3 Shadow Dancers. The whole castle is basically designed to kill those who don't have good Fort/Will saves.
|
Got a question... what happens if the paladin just flies up to Ileosa and sunders her crown with Serithiel on the spot?
The question is this... Is it Illeosa doing all this... or was it mostly Kazavon? Yes, the Guide to Korvosa lists her as NE... but is "SHE" guilty for being Mind-Controlled and possessed by Kazavon?
In Forgotten Realms - Lady Laereal was also possessed by the "Crown of Horns" and she did some really evil things while under its control... until Khelben Blackstaff rescued her. Now true.. Laereal was not evil, but should that matter?
Ileosa may be evil but she might not have been the one pulling the strings.
Our Paladin has brought this point up in several discussions... and his 'Heavenly Virtue' Mercy - feat... means he could potentially take her alive.
Any thoughts on this?
Wish I could ask the writers this actually.. fat chance...
Well, we know Ileosa was evil, but that she was a 'petty' evil and kind of lazy. Kazavon's spirit changed her, whispered to her and guided her petty desires into something a lot more dangerous.
Without Kazavon's spirit, I'd say she's still evil, but she'd become more and more incompetent at being evil and she'd start acting more and more like a petty child. That's not to say she won't be capable or do some truly disgusting things, she just won't be capable of doing things like figuring out how to work an Artifact and organizing the mass slaughter of her city in exchange for eternal youth.
|
|
Yeah, that was my take as well. She was childish in her desire to to be a Queen.. but she WAS smart enough to know.. all she had to do was wait.. as Eodred was very old and she would easily outlive him and the Crimson Throne would have just fallen into her hands by default! I don't think she would have had the courage or self will to plot a 'mostly unnecessary' assassination or even want to wreck the very city whose Throne she coveted so much! Kazavon's control forced/coerced - possession made her do these outrageously destructive things. I'm sure she would NEVER have agreed to make a pact with a Devil to bind an Erinyes to her soul for the price of her soul!! She's from Cheliex.. she KNOWS how such things end! Eternal youth is a tempting thing.. but I think she would have relied upon her Bard magics to maintian her beauty over the year... and personally lacked the long-term forsight to worry over it after all she is still very young.. and Very beautiful! Youthful Appearance is a spell on her bard list.. so its not really a consern for her right now - certainly not important enough for her to risk such a dubious plan when all she need do is wait a few years for all she desires to fall into her hands at Eodred's death.
In your opinion.. would she be at least tacitly and initially grateful for being released from Kazavon's control/possession.. sort of like Togomor?
At this point, if the party were to remove the crown from her immediately, I don't think it would do much good. She's already grown incredibly powerful due to Kazavon's guidance. She's learned an incredible amount of arcane information and has gained access to powers far beyond what she normally could have.
If she were to be removed from the influence of the crown, she'd still be a major threat, she just wouldn't have the backing of the incredible brilliance Kazavon brought, nor his motivation or cunning. See, without Kazavon motivating her, she'd likely fall back on her lazy tendencies.
I'd picture her as a malevolent and vain Queen that would lounge on her throne, dreaming of greater conquests, but unwilling to put forward the effort necessary to achieve those conquests.
She'd continue with her vain cruelty though. Possibly making laws against a certain level of beauty amongst the females, and likely restricting the advancement of males in Korvosa.
You might see a total role reversal amongst the Korvosan citizens, with men being subjugated, brutally so, by the Grey Maidens, with many of their rights and privileges being taken away.
Woman who are deemed 'too beautiful' in the eyes of Queen Ileosa might be horribly scarred or killed or even brainwashed into becoming a Grey Maiden.
===================
How would she initially respond? Probably unchanged. I doubt she'd even notice a difference in efforts while the fight is underway. Remember, Kazavon didn't 'control' Ileosa, he took everything negative about her and amplified it. At this point, with or without Kazavon, she'd continue with trying to sacrifice the city for eternal youth.
The loss of Kazavon would only effect her in the longterm as much of her cunning and plotting and motivation was probably attributed to him. However, she'd probably be unlikely to form more plots like the selling of her soul.
If she were captured, instead of killed, she might even come to be horrified at that act. It may be that she would seek out the party in for aid in getting her soul back. Though how she views that event is entirely up to you. She may just enjoy it because the selling her soul actually made her even more beautiful than before.
Could also mythic her up, as I've been planning to do. It gives BBELadies a good action economy boost and some very solid resistances to a high level party, which has always been my least favorite part of D&D final boss fights. They're a Will save away from anti-climax, RAW...
Two/three-staging her also doesn't seem like a bad idea, as long as this won't seriously tick off your party. One group absolutely hated when Andaisin came back from the dead. The other group thought it was the most metal and awesome thing they'd encountered in their (years!) experience playing RPGs.