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So, to sum it up for our society GM's out their, the total changes for the 3 feat style line are:
Old way: -1 to attack, +4 dodge to ac, one deflected attack, one attack of opportunity in response to the deflected attack when fighting defensively.
New way: -2 to attack, +4 dodge bonus to AC, +8 dodge bonus to ac vs. ONE attack, one deflected attack when fighting defensively - if going total defense, no attacks but TWO deflected attacks per round?!
Am I missing something here?
Yes you are. No deflected attacks if you are fighting defensively.
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From the PRD:
Crane Wing (Combat)
You move with the speed and finesse of an avian hunter, your sweeping blocks and graceful motions allowing you to deflect melee attacks with ease.
Prerequisites: Crane Style, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +5 or monk level 5th.
Benefit: Once per round while using Crane Style, when you have at least one hand free and are either fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you can deflect one melee weapon attack that would normally hit you. You expend no action to deflect the attack, but you must be aware of it and not flat-footed. An attack so deflected deals no damage to you.
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To re-summarize. If one has all three feats, Crane Style, Crane Wing, and Crane Riposte:
OLD WAY
On your turn, you may choose one of the following:
Additionally, regardless of your choice above, you may deflect one melee attack made against you, and make an attack of opportunity in return against that enemy.
NEW WAY
On your turn, you may choose one of the following:
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Looks good, Fox. You might want to also note that you can fight defensively as a full-round action.
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Looks good, Fox. You might want to also note that you can fight defensively as a full-round action.
Good point. Too late now to edit.
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Looks good, Fox. You might want to also note that you can fight defensively as a full-round action.
And you can fight defensively as a standard action
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Total defense is actually a standard action. Also, it's worth noting that you can't make attacks of opportunity while you're using it.
Yes. You are correct on both counts. (I misremembered the action for total defense.) But regarding the attack of opportunity, that is provided by the feat, Crane Riposte.
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Total defense is actually a standard action. Also, it's worth noting that you can't make attacks of opportunity while you're using it.
This is a true statement.
But like everything else in the game rules, the specific trumps the general.
The General rule being that you can't take AoO's while in Total Defense.
The Specific rule being that the feat breaks that rule.
Feats break lots of rule in the game. That's their schtick.
Don't like how the rules work for your character? Take a feat and change the rules for your character.
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RIP crane wing.
I must be the odd man out since I never had trouble dealing with players using it. But hey, thanks for the heads up! My tired brain would probably have forgotten about it, and I have a game to run tomorrow with someone that'll be using it.
Ditto. I personally never had a problem with it from PCs using it. There was almost always at least one of surprise, invisibility, ranged attacks, feint capability, spells, and/or simply winning initiative to threaten the Crane player with.
In the occasional encounter with only straight up to your face melee enemies then the PC got to really enjoy his feat selection. Why is that a bad thing?
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RIP crane wing.
I must be the odd man out since I never had trouble dealing with players using it. But hey, thanks for the heads up! My tired brain would probably have forgotten about it, and I have a game to run tomorrow with someone that'll be using it.
I let PCs surprise enemies allt he time with crane wing. But at the same time, I have surprised PCs that have expected crane wing to make them invisible.
RIP crane wing.
I must be the odd man out since I never had trouble dealing with players using it. But hey, thanks for the heads up! My tired brain would probably have forgotten about it, and I have a game to run tomorrow with someone that'll be using it.
Ditto. I personally never had a problem with it from PCs using it. There was almost always at least one of surprise, invisibility, ranged attacks, feint capability, spells, and/or simply winning initiative to threaten the Crane player with.
In the occasional encounter with only straight up to your face melee enemies then the PC got to really enjoy his feat selection. Why is that a bad thing?
Because martial can't have nice things. I'll be ignoring this nerf.
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Because martial can't have nice things. I'll be ignoring this nerf.RIP crane wing.
I must be the odd man out since I never had trouble dealing with players using it. But hey, thanks for the heads up! My tired brain would probably have forgotten about it, and I have a game to run tomorrow with someone that'll be using it.
Ditto. I personally never had a problem with it from PCs using it. There was almost always at least one of surprise, invisibility, ranged attacks, feint capability, spells, and/or simply winning initiative to threaten the Crane player with.
In the occasional encounter with only straight up to your face melee enemies then the PC got to really enjoy his feat selection. Why is that a bad thing?
Don't know if you play PFS or not, but this thread is in the PFS area of the boards. So please don't ignore the change while playing PFS, as we follow the rules as written here.
In your home game, however, any house rules are of course fair game.
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Because martial can't have nice things. I'll be ignoring this nerf.RIP crane wing.
I must be the odd man out since I never had trouble dealing with players using it. But hey, thanks for the heads up! My tired brain would probably have forgotten about it, and I have a game to run tomorrow with someone that'll be using it.
Ditto. I personally never had a problem with it from PCs using it. There was almost always at least one of surprise, invisibility, ranged attacks, feint capability, spells, and/or simply winning initiative to threaten the Crane player with.
In the occasional encounter with only straight up to your face melee enemies then the PC got to really enjoy his feat selection. Why is that a bad thing?
Not in Pathfinder Society, you won't. (Psst: You're in the PFS forums.)
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Update: Page 93, in the Crane Riposte feat, in the benefits paragraph, change the second sentence to read as follows: Whenever you are fighting defensively, and you use Crane Wing to add a dodge bonus against one attack, that attack provokes an attack of opportunity from you if it misses. In addition, when you deflect an attack using Crane Wing while taking the total defense action, you may make an attack of opportunity against that opponent (even though you could not normally do so while taking the total defense action).—Pathfinder Design Team
Emphasis mine. Does this mean that you can apply crane wing to an arbitrary attack and it will provoke even in the case where the attack would not have hit normally? Seems weird. In the previous version of Crane Wing and Riposte, you couldn't trigger the AoO unless the attack would have actually hit you normally.
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Yeah that's my understanding - you use Crane wing to dodge an attack and if success crane riposte gives you an AOO against your opponent.
Actually if you were the typical crane style character with a very high AC then the old crane riposte rarely took effect but now crane riposte should trigger significantly more often..
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Yes, I agree, the ability to Crane Riposte more often is actually well worth the loss of an auto-deflection. Before, I would use Crane Wing at most 2-3 times versus the biggest threat and almost never in regular combats. Now I can declare CW versus 1 attack a round and get my riposte for all those misses. If anything, this actually strengthens the feat tree by sacrificing a little defense for a lot more offensive potential.
I formally withdraw all my complaints versus this erratta and commend Paizo on their willingness to address the issue after the feedback.
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Yes, I agree, the ability to Crane Riposte more often is actually well worth the loss of an auto-deflection. Before, I would use Crane Wing at most 2-3 times versus the biggest threat and almost never in regular combats. Now I can declare CW versus 1 attack a round and get my riposte for all those misses. If anything, this actually strengthens the feat tree by sacrificing a little defense for a lot more offensive potential.
I formally withdraw all my complaints versus this erratta and commend Paizo on their willingness to address the issue after the feedback.
I'm trying to ensure that I understand this perfectly.
Fighting Defensively as either a standard or full-round action:
-4/+2 with nothing else
-2/+3 with Crane Style
-1/+3 with Crane Riposte
-1/+4 with 3 ranks in acrobatics
Also, we can add +4 ac vs one attack a round (declared BEFORE the roll); if that attack misses, we can make an AOO. This is only good for the one attack we called our +4 AC versus. This however, effectively gives us one AOO every round, where previously they had to hit to provoke the AOO.