Odd Dilemma

[Grizzled Gryphon]

I am making a Half-Elf Summoner, or rather Wild Caller, and I have the Weirdest problem I have ever had making a 3.P character.

I don't know which feat(s) to take. This isn't the usual "I have narrowed down the feats I want to only 2,000", no, this is a "I haven't found any feats that really seem good for this character" problem.

I don't have Ultimate Magic, yet, so there very well could be awesomeness in there for a Summoner, but as of right now, I don't have any real ideas on what to take.

This character doesn't seem the type to go into combat themselves, thats what an Eidolon is around for. So combat feats seem to be out.

I don't see much of anything that boosts the Eidolon, although I suppose later on when I cast Summon eidolon, then Augment Summoning would be nice. However, how often am I going to be running around without the Eidolon, my pal, running with me? The eidolon seems to be rather beefy, so I don't expect it to die hardly ever.

With one of the worst spells per day and spells known spell casting ability, so Expanded Arcana isn't all that great a choice, but it is starting to look like the best one, anyway. At least when I hit higher levels, I can start taking the Item Creation Feats, and this will expand my selection of items I can make.

Of course, I could go with Improved Init, and then take stuff like Extend Spell (when its relevant), but I have so few slots, I don't know if I want to do too much metamagic.

Anyway, if anyone has any advice, I would love to hear it. Thanks!!

[Rerednaw]

What role do you want for your summoner?

What kind of Eidolon are you going to use? If you want a melee dps, Quadraped Pounce builds are quite common and will make the fighter cry.
Base form: quadraped
st 14 dx 14 cn 13 in 7 ws 10 ch 11
spd 40
free evolutions: bite, legs(2)
Evolutions:
1-claws
1-pounce
1-open (improved natural armor is okay)
atk: +1(bab)+2(st) = +3 vs. AC (bite, claw, claw)
hit: 1d6+2(bite), 1d4+2(claw), 1d4+2(claw)
All 3 attacks when he charges with pounce.

Standard feat progression for summoning focus is Spell Focus Conjuration, Augment Summoning. Superior Summoning is also recommended for when you summon multiple monsters to bolster the action economy. If you really want to go gung-ho with Eidolon abilities you could take the Extra Evolution feat. But really the base-build Eidolon is powerful and your favored class bonus is going to pump him up.

If you are to be the dedicated item crafter, then Craft Wondrous will cover a good deal of what you need.

Early on, your Eidolon will be a bit of a glass cannon. And if you lose him in combat, you cannot summon him again for the day so this is a real risk at low levels. But fortunately you have standard action monster (for your nature's ally) summoning as a backup.

Your class selection is potentially immensely powerful and may overshadow traditional martial builds.

So to recap feat-wise I'd go with:
1-Spell Focus Conjuration
3-Augment Summoning
5-Superior Summoning
7-Craft Wondrous
9+ open. That should get you well on the way of someone who's worthy of having dice thrown at them. :)

[Skizzlefrits]

You should consider getting Extra Evolution.

Improved Initiative is always a good choice as well.

[nate lange]

summoners already make action economy their b!tch, so this suggestion might be too potent, but you could always look at something like this:

1- anything you want
racial- skill focus[any knowledge]
3- eldritch heritage[arcane]
5- improved familiar
7- evolved familiar: skilled[UMD]
9+ doesn't even matter...

keep max ranks in UMD. in combat your eidolon melts face (pouncing quadruped with max natural attacks, plus arms evolution to add weapon/iterative attacks to natural ones- as big and strong as possible) with it's turn; the improved familiar buffs/heals/whatever with wands and scrolls; and you do whatever you want... take a nap, drink some lemonade, get a whip and pretend you know how to use it... it doesn't matter because your eidolon is competing for your party's top DPR spot and your familiar is 'casting' stuff every round

[Grizzled Gryphon]

@Rerednaw: Thanks for wandering in so fast! ;D Anyway, is Augment Summoning really going to apply all that often? I guess I can go that way, its not like I have a huge selection of feats I desperately want!!

As for a role, I will be using the cat pounce idea you have above. I think that is pretty much what I have chosen already.

Quadraped, Pounce, Claws, and Improved Damage (claws) to start, then when I can, limbs (legs) a few times, and the feat Improved Natural Attack, so I will have a freakish cross between a Tiger and Sleipnir. Probably go for Rake as well. But maybe Huge, or something. Heh. That probably will make the melee types cry, until we come up against DR...

I will be getting an extra evolution point every other level, as well. At least that is how I read it. Favored Class Option "add +1/4 to the Eidolon's evolution pool"; and Wild Caller Eidolon class feature says the same. So, two +1/4's is a +1/2, I think. Depends on if they are actual fractions, or if they are just PF's way of saying "+1 every 4 levels" quicker, in which case I would get 2 points every 4 levels.

I assume that Superior Summoning and Extra Evolution are from Ultimate Magic?

And Skizzlefrits, you are indeed correct; Improved Initiative is a great feat.

[Rerednaw]

Grizzled Gryphon wrote:

@Rerednaw: Thanks for wandering in so fast! ;D Anyway, is Augment Summoning really going to apply all that often? I guess I can go that way, its not like I have a huge selection of feats I desperately want!!

As for a role, I will be using the cat pounce idea you have above. I think that is pretty much what I have chosen already.

Quadraped, Pounce, Claws, and Improved Damage (claws) to start, then when I can, limbs (legs) a few times, and the feat Improved Natural Attack, so I will have a freakish cross between a Tiger and Sleipnir. Probably go for Rake as well. But maybe Huge, or something. Heh. That probably will make the melee types cry, until we come up against DR...

I will be getting an extra evolution point every other level, as well. At least that is how I read it. Favored Class Option "add +1/4 to the Eidolon's evolution pool"; and Wild Caller Eidolon class feature says the same. So, two +1/4's is a +1/2, I think. Depends on if they are actual fractions, or if they are just PF's way of saying "+1 every 4 levels" quicker, in which case I would get 2 points every 4 levels.

I assume that Superior Summoning and Extra Evolution are from Ultimate Magic?

And Skizzlefrits, you are indeed correct; Improved Initiative is a great feat.

You are welcome...and welcome to the world of Eidolons and their pet Summoners! :)

Yes with an extra Evolution point every 2 levels you are pretty set with regards to a super Eidolon. So much so I would spend your feats on other things.

While you cannot have a summons from your SLA and your Eidolon at the same time and you can only have 1 SLA active at a time the SLA summon is nevertheless a standard action. This is something other summoners give their eyeteeth for (like say when you are attacked while sleeping) and it a great way to get up some blockers fast. So when you want to summon a group of mobs...this way you don't cry when you roll a 1 on the 1d3 :) You will always summon 2 or more when trying for multiple mobs.

Plus some of the best control spells (which you also happen to have access to) are Conjuration so bumping up that save DC works for you.

Superior Summoning is from Ultimate Magic (pre-req caster level 3, Augment Summoning)
Extra Evolution is from Ultimate Magic as well...but you really don't need it with your racial and Wild Caller bonus, this frees up your feat slots for other goodies. :)

Both feats are available for reference in the PRD though.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Yeah, I checked them out. I will probably go with those 3 feats, then take advanced arcana until I get some item creation feats.

[Wiggz]

Quick question GG:

Is it that you don't want your Summoner in combat himself or that you don't think he'd be very good at it so you're planning to stay out? Summoners are kinda my specialty and I could help you with a number of different build ideas.

One very strong suggestion for Charisma-based characters with feats to spare is the Eldritch Heritage feat line. This applies doubly to your Half-Elf because you get the pre-requisite Skill Focus for free.

If you want to go for a 'stay out of harms way' caster, I'd recommend you look at the Arcane Bloodline to get a Bonded Object or Familiar, some additional spells known from the Wizard/Sorcerer line and a late bump in your Conjurations DC.

If you are considering actually getting in there and mixing it up, taking advantage of all the great combat options offered by your eidolon, I'd recommend the Orcish bloodline to boost your strength, gain a powerful buff for your eidolon and even grow to a more powerful size to compliment your ever-growing eidolon. In this care I'd start off wielding a reach weapon and eventually fighting as a mounted warrior upon your eidolon.

There are other options out there too. Just give me a shout if you want to explore them...

[Grizzled Gryphon]

The 'stay out of the way' caster sounds like what I was going for, here. Let the Eidolon lay the smackdown, while I buff and possibly heal if needed.

[Wiggz]

Grizzled Gryphon wrote:

The 'stay out of the way' caster sounds like what I was going for, here. Let the Eidolon lay the smackdown, while I buff and possibly heal if needed.

Then this is the feat selection I would probably go with:

Half-Elven 20th level Wild Caller

Feats:
1st - Extra Evolution
1st - Skil Focus: Knowledge - Planes
3rd - Eldritch Heritage: Arcane bloodline (Arcane Bond)
5th - Extra Evolution
7th - Spell Focus: Conjuration
9th - Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration
11th - Improved Eldritch Heritage: Arcane bloodline (Extra Arcana)
13th - Extra Evolution
15th - Quicken Spell
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage: Arcane bloodline (School Power - Conjuration)
19th - Extra Evolution or Expanded Arcana

The two routes I would consider would be to focus on Conjuration magic, specifically the various Pit Spells, as I did above or to focus on Enchantment magic and take advantage of some of the Charm/Hold/Dominate spells available to Summoners.

With Arcane Bloodline you'll get a bonded object you can craft without having to take the crafting feats and for your Extra Arcana I'd recommend you consider Emergency Force Sphere at 11th to start.

[Grizzled Gryphon]

Nice. Thanks a bunch, this looks mighty helpful.

Wouldn't Extend Spell be good to squeeze in there somewhere, though? Having the buffs last longer seems like a good idea.