Agoz
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After reviewing the rules on natural attacks, my reading is that unless noted as being secondary natural attacks, natural attacks are primary by default, so I would play that the battleshaping power provides the caster with primary natural attacks.
"Natural Attacks: Attacks made with natural weapons, such as claws and bites, are melee attacks that can be made against any creature within your reach (usually 5 feet). These attacks are made using your full attack bonus and deal an amount of damage that depends on their type (plus your Strength modifier, as normal). You do not receive additional natural attacks for a high base attack bonus. Instead, you receive additional attack rolls for multiple limb and body parts capable of making the attack (as noted by the race or ability that grants the attacks). If you possess only one natural attack (such as a bite—two claw attacks do not qualify), you add 1–1/2 times your Strength bonus on damage rolls made with that attack.
Some natural attacks are denoted as secondary natural attacks, such as tails and wings. Attacks with secondary natural attacks are made using your base attack bonus minus 5. These attacks deal an amount of damage depending on their type, but you only add half your Strength modifier on damage rolls...
"
You will note that it only says that secondary attacks are denoted, with the default assumption being that the attack follows the first paragraph, the rules for primary natural attacks.
| MurphysParadox |
The question is about Battleshape as described here
If the attack with the natural weapon is your only attack, it is considered a primary attack. However, if you attack with a manufactured weapon (knife, staff, etc) and the natural weapon, it is considered a secondary attack.
| Hendelbolaf |
Okay, now I get it.
"Battleshaping (Su): As a swift action, you grow a single natural weapon. The natural weapon lasts for 1 round and has a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls for every four wizard levels you possess. You can grow a claw, a bite, or a gore attack. These attacks deal the normal damage for a creature of your size. At 11th level, you can shape two natural weapons. You may not grow additional limbs or a tail with this ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier."
I would think that the first natural weapon that you gain is a primary attack. At 11th it would most likely be a secondary attack at the -5 penalty. I do not think that the intention of Battleshaping was to give the wizard two primary attacks as natural weapons. However, it is not noted that the additional natural weapon at 11th level is a secondary attack so I can see the argument there as well.
In the end it is a high level wizard making melee attacks so I would not be against allowing them both to be at full BAB, but you might want to check with your DM.
| Hendelbolaf |
It is in the next paragraph down from what Agoz quoted:
"You can make attacks with natural weapons in combination with attacks made with a melee weapon and unarmed strikes, so long as a different limb is used for each attack. For example, you cannot make a claw attack and also use that hand to make attacks with a longsword. When you make additional attacks in this way, all of your natural attacks are treated as secondary natural attacks, using your base attack bonus minus 5 and adding only 1/2 of your Strength modifier on damage rolls. Feats such as Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiattack can reduce these penalties."
| MurphysParadox |
Thanks for the quote, Hendelbolaf. Also, I believe that even the second natural attack you get at level 11 would be a primary attack. The ability does not denote it as a secondary natural attack, thus it would remain primary (not unusual; for example, the tiger's bite and two claws are all primary attacks).
Taenia
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Natural attacks are defined as primary and secondary by their attack type, so unless otherwise noted, bite, claws, gore, slam are all primary natural attacks while wings, tail, tentacles are all secondary attacks.
This ability says you grow bite, gore or a claw which are all defined as primary so they will be primary. At 11th level you would grow two primary weapons, as all on this list are primary so you could grow 2 claws, a bite and a claw, a bite and a gore or a gore and a claw.
If an attack is not in the normal list provided, such as Hair for a White Hair Witch, then it will be defined in its description as primary or secondary.