Mounted Fury

[maelfaren]

One of my players is making a mammoth rider via mounted fury. He has wants to take the beast totem rage powers to share with his mount. Which is fine but our point of difference is on the claws power. Simply read it says you gain two claw attacks . But that is written to refer to a humanoid barbarian. I ruled that while his mammoth can gain claws from the power they do not give his mammoth extra attacks. He may use his two claw attacks or his gore and slam.

I would not expect a human barbarian with the beast totem to expect to attack with his greataxe then get two claw attacks with his feet.

If he had a horse mount his clawed hooves could do slashing or bludgeoning damage.

I don't think a rage power should give two extra attacks to a mounted furies mount when it does not to him. What if the mounted fury has a giant cat mount it already has claws.

The animalistic power gives you a bite as secondary attack as part of a full attack which I have no problem with . Even though it starts with gains as well like beast totem does.

I don't think the intent of beast totem was for animal mounts.

Feedback please.

[Imbicatus]

The reason the Barbarian couldn't use the claws with a great axe is because he is using his hands on the axe and the claws are on his hands. If he was using bladed boots, he could make a primary attack with the bladed boots and a secondary with the claws. As the mammoth doesn't have claw attacks, I wouldn't have a problem letting it use the claws as secondary attacks in addition to its gore and slam.

[MC Templar]

If the barbarian had a natural bite attack, and then gained claws, they'd get to make them all.

on the flip side I've seen it argued that a "slam" attacks presumes to use your arms if you have them, and are mutually exclusive with weapon or claw attacks.

[Imbicatus]

In the example of the mammoth, I assumed the slam was from the trunk.

[Majuba]

maelfaren wrote:

I don't think a rage power should give two extra attacks to a mounted furies mount when it does not to him. What if the mounted fury has a giant cat mount it already has claws.

Feedback please.

I think you're perfectly justified in denying this, and you give good reasons.

[MrSin]

Majuba wrote:

I think you're perfectly justified in denying this, and you give good reasons.

Umm... The fact you can't make your claw attacks because your holding your weapon is a reason your mount can't pounce with its claws? What?

[Imbicatus]

Quote:

Natural Attacks

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type.

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

[Devilkiller]

Claws on a mammoth seem a little goofy. That said, even if you did allow them to be used that would prevent the animal companion from gaining an extra gore attack via the Multi-attack ability (the animal companion version grants you an extra attack if you have fewer than 3)

There are getting to be a lot of ways to gain natural attacks, and it seems like many of them are kind of weird. There's a ring which gives you a bite but makes you look a little rat-like. There's also a helm (which this PC might want) which gives you a gore attack.