Sage advice is needed.
When making a leap attack are you considered flat footed?
Last night our superstar monk made a leap 10 feet out to grapple a hovering opponent. As the player attempted the grapple they provoked an attack of opportunity. And we digressed with an interesting rules debate.
The official ruling was that there was no penalty to attack or AC as leaping is a move action, but it did not seem to sit well in our minds.
Our table generally assumed that when a characters feet are not on the ground they are unable to use a dex bonus to AC. The reasoning is a person needs some means of mobility to dodge.
Could someone please clear this up for me?
Thanks in advance
-MD
* PS - I am not referencing the leap attack feat. This is just a person using acrobatics to jump and grapple.
Well I can tell you that the fly skill says "You are not considered flat-footed while flying" and that acrobatics skill only says "While you are using Acrobatics (to move on narrow surfaces and uneven ground without falling), you are considered flat-footed and lose your Dexterity bonus to your AC (if any)".
I guess in this instance, neither creature is flat-footed because none of them meet the requirements to be.
There's no rule denying Dex to AC (much less causing flat-footedness, a separate and more serious condition) simply for being airborne. Besides, in the abstract, the leaper is using their Dexterity when performing the leap, so the Dex bonus to AC could represent, e.g., putting a bit of spin on the jump, or deciding to do a flip rather than a straight jump, or deftly parrying in mid-air. I don't think RAW or RAI supports denying Dex to AC in this case, and I can't see how doing so would improve the game.
You certainly can control how you are moving through the air. Gymnasts do it all the time. Skydivers can be incredibly agile despite not touching anything.
Unless there is something physically constricting movement or the person is totally unaware there isn't a reason to make somebody flat footed.
Our table generally assumed that when a characters feet are not on the ground they are unable to use a dex bonus to AC. The reasoning is a person needs some means of mobility to dodge.
<Shrug.> Any martial artist will tell you that this is wrong. So, for that matter, will any high-jumper. Nothing keeps you from twisting your body while in free-fall.
Our table generally assumed that when a characters feet are not on the ground they are unable to use a dex bonus to AC. The reasoning is a person needs some means of mobility to dodge.
<Shrug.> Any martial artist will tell you that this is wrong. So, for that matter, will any high-jumper. Nothing keeps you from twisting your body while in free-fall.
As an avid K1 fan and someone who trains in Taekwondo and Muay Thai the rule of thumb is to be very careful when leaving your feet. You are vulnerable. Don't believe me ask Andrei Arlovski who got fancy with a flying knee and had his face introduced to Fedor's fist mid flight. How this "vulnerability" translates at the table I don't know.
But I am digressing talking about martial arts. A topic I enjoy way to much.
I see your point that Dex is more than just feet on the ground. Also I need to remind myself that characters at the table are heroes and should be doing heroic stuff.
I do appreciate everyone's feedback, thank you.
-MD
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There is a rule that if you are running you loose DEX to AC unless you have the run feat. Since jumping is similar to running in that you are putting all of your effort into movement,loosing your dex to ac while jumping is reasonable. If you do have that as a houserule, I would rule if you have the run feat I applies to jumping as well.
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Here is some thought for your minds; if you face difficult terrain, you need to make an acrobatics check and are considered flat-footed while moving. I sure as hell claim "moving in air" to be difficult terrain! With a fly ability you can move in air, but with feet; not so much.
The feat "nimble moves" would allow you to ignore some of this difficult terrain.
For movement and distances; (remember that you make a diagonal jump "3d plane")