Hello,
I am planning to play a mounted summoner and I have a lot of questions I couldn't answer by searching the internet:
1) If I am using my mount=eidolon as a cover, would I be able to attempt to fast dismount so that I can full attack on the next round (thus not having to spend a move action on recovering) ?
2) Can I take 10 in ride checks done in combat?
3) Can you confirm that Ride-by-attack is useless, due to my eidolon not being able to attack?
4) Do you think taking a level in dragoon is necessary or should I go full summoner? Keep in mind that I'm trying to go for a melee summoner build so I need the weapon proficiencies regardless
5) Would I have a ride check to do when my eidolon pounces?
6) If I am wielding a greatsword, would I be able to attack from my Large mount?
Thanks in advance for your answers
1)Im not sure what you mean by using your mount as cover. However you can use fast dismount/mount any time you would like providing you have a move action free. So if 'using the mount for cover' leaves you with a move action free then you can do it.
2)No, the requirement for taking 10 is that there be no negative consequence for failure. There is however a feat trick riding which lets you ignore any skill checks with dc 15 or lower.
3) Your mounts ability to take is actually wholly irellivent to wether rideby attack is useless. However, your mount cannot attack while you use it.
4)You can do a melee summoner fine without multiclassing. race options can help you get around the weapon issues. Elf for example gives you access to multiple martial weapons for being an elf and half-elf would let you choose tghe lance. Additionally, You could initially use simple weapons like the spear in place of a lance until you have your feats all set up.
5)while the issues of 'im riding a sentient creature' is probly not very clear. I think to recieve the benefits of any of the mounted combat feats the rider has to be in control. To me this would mean making all the ride checks. however, it may not be clear in RAw.
A final thing, Your basically delving into some unclear territory in probly one of the most poorly worded sections of the game. I suggest reading botht he ride skill and the mounted combat section, because for some wierd reason aspects of mounted combat are mentioned soley under ride and not in mounted combat.
A the end of the day if any of it is unclear, just work out a clear understanding with your DM. I played a mounted summoner on a flying pegataur mount to level 9 and it worked fine.
Hello and thank you for your answers ,
For question 1) I was specifically talking about that :
"Cover: You can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside your mount, using it as cover. You can't attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. If you fail your Ride check, you don't get the cover benefit. Using this option is an immediate action, but recovering from this position is a move action (no check required)."
What I would like to do is attempt to fast dismount instead of recovering from cover (thus economizing a move action)
What I like with taking 1 level of dragoon is that it gives you 2 feats at level 1 (mounted combat and skill focus(ride) ) as well as full weapon proficiency. Don't you think it is worth it?
3) I don't understand your answer, I have seen some mounted summoners taking this feat and I couldn't understand why, since your eidolon (which is your main damage source) can't attack while using this feat. Doesn't he loose his actions or could he attack after using it? It is really poorly worded
The character I am building is to be PFS legal, so I cannot talk in advance with the GM since there'll be many of them, hence my questions.
By the way, my character is an angel-blooded Aasimar
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1. I can see that as a legitimate use of Ride, however, as with all things, see what your GM thinks first.
2. No, you may not. From the PRD: "Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10."
3. Ride by Attack is definately not useless - however it is a feat intended to be taken by the rider, not the mount. Your PC can't take it to get your mount an attack. A mounted knight with a lance rides by his target and strikes it. His horse doesn't.
4. YMMV
5. I would say no, but ask your GM.
6. That would be a "guide with knees" Ride check, DC 5. And yes, you essentially become the mount (you share all spaces with your mount) so you can attack from your large mount without a reach weapon - you even get a +1 for higher ground.
Ahh, well i think for the cover bit on 1) That given you are hanging off the side of your mount precariously that you are not in a position to fast dismount. But that likely falls under Dm discression. I think the watch word for PFS to avoid confusion is assume the least favourable reading.
so short answer, i think if you have used cover that you cannot fast dismount while hanging off the side of your mount. Unless by fast dismount you mean letting go and deliberately falling off your mount. Well i guess as answers go it was not that short.
3) I typoed my answer, but i will re-tterate it. The ability of your mount to be able to attack is not actually relevant to ride by attack.
Basically, ride by attack gives you options you will encounter things that neither you or your mount want to get into melee with. Ride by attack gives you a tactical option.
the fact that your mount cannot attack with ride-by attack affects when you would choose to use that tactical option. byt that choise is yours and does not make ride-by attack useless. It simply makes it not always the best option for all mouned characters.
As far as PFS goes i would assume, make all your mounted combat rolls for ride as if your mount was no smarter than a normal horse. This will probly help you avoid what they call table variation.
Ok, that seems clear to me.
2 questions popped in my mind however:
7) Do your eidolon loose his own set of actions?
Normally when you have a mount, you have to spend your move action to have it charge or even move.
In this case the eidolon isn't really a mount since you can order him telepathically to do your bidding, what's more he's got his own initiative score so unless the summoner or the eidolon chooses to delay his turn, summoner and eidolon wouldn't act at the same time.
So my question is : do you loose your move to order him about?
In particular, if you're mounting him and he pounces on his turn, would you be able to use a swift to fast dismount, full attack your foe and then 5 foot step away?
And more importantly, would you get the +2 to hit -2 ac induced by a charge if you full atfack on your turn after an eidolon pounce?
8) Would your eidolon be able to attack a foe situated at the rear of an ennemy group when using ride by attack? If yes, could he use pounce?
Let's say you're fighting against two opponents, one of whom is 15 ft away from you and the second of whom is 30 ft away, could you ride by attack the first one and have your eidolon pounce-full attack the second one?
A while back we ran through the Second Darkness AP, and our group consisted of an Elven Void Mage, a Dwarven Evangelist (Madness Domain) and a set of twins, a Half-Elven Summoner and a Half-Elven Master Summoner. I ran the Summoner and built him to be effective in melee and especially as a mounted warrior - my first and only mounted character. He was arguably the most powerful character I've ever played, certainly the toughest melee character which is saying something.
The route I went was to fight with a longspear at early levels, basically fighting from behind my eidolon. Then, at 9th level - the level after which my eidolon was able to grow to Large size and become an effective mount - I took a single level of Dragoon for the feats and weapon proficiencies and thereafter fought most of my battles from astride the eidolon.
Lots of little tricks in this build. I took the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Orcish bloodline. That gave me significant strength boosts and the power Touch of Rage worked perfectly with a pouncing eidolon. Don't forget about abilities like Shield Ally and Aspect... together you should be an incredibly mobile and deadly tank.
If you have any questions about the build, please don't hesitate to ask.
Hi there, thanks for your build idea, I think I've already seen it somewhere.
I took dragoon at level 1 in order to be able to fight in melee from the start of the adventure, and I plan to use enlarge person to be able to ride my eidolon ( and I was toying with the idea of using alter self to reduce myself (angel blooded aasimar class feature)
I don't really see the utility of the eldritch heritage feats though as I would need lots of feats already with trick rider, ride by attack etc.. Especially since the touch takes a standard.
Would you know the answer to questions 7 and 8?
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The Mounted Combat rules need to a FAQ in the worst way. I recently built a cavalier and had many of the same questions. Based on the many messageboard threads, this is what I think are the answers:
7. I think the movement rules still apply even if the mount is an eidolon. Your mount is charging so you are also charging, which means you can't full attack at the end. In fact, I think you have to make a ride check in order for your mount to attack in the same round as you (DC 15 I believe). Since your mount is sentient, that last part may not be necessary for you.
8. I think that is allowable as long as the movement rules are obeyed. Pounce requires a charge, which means a straight line. If you can line up the enemies so that you ride by attack the first while your mount finishes his charge and pounce at the second (and possibly requiring the ride check for you both to attack as mentioned above), then yes it should work. Pretty situational scenario.
Hi there, thanks for your build idea, I think I've already seen it somewhere.
I took dragoon at level 1 in order to be able to fight in melee from the start of the adventure, and I plan to use enlarge person to be able to ride my eidolon ( and I was toying with the idea of using alter self to reduce myself (angel blooded aasimar class feature)
I don't really see the utility of the eldritch heritage feats though as I would need lots of feats already with trick rider, ride by attack etc.. Especially since the touch takes a standard.
A few things to keep in mind:
Enlarge person on you or the eidolon? That's a lost round of activity every combat, at least by you, and it ties up your very limited number of spells and reducing yourself would be even worse.
I think you're overvaluing Trick Rider. Between Mage Armor, Shield Ally, shared hit points between you and your eidolon, etc. the Trick Riding thing probably won't be used as often as you think it will. I understand your thought process, but the truth is, even your ability to negate a single attack won't be that big of a deal since a well-built eidolon will likely have a higher AC than you will a Ride Skill check.
The utility of the Eldritch Heritage feats are huge - I highly recommend looking into them, specifically for the Orcish bloodline. First off as a Half-Elf (which you absolutely want to be for the free evolution points) you get the pre-req Skill Focus for free. Secondly, you'll need the Strength bonus to be effective in melee (and Power of Giants when you get it is insane). Third, at middle to high levels Touch of Rage if a very big deal - using that standard action to give your pouncing eidolon +6 to +10 to all of his attacks and all of his damage rolls that round is bigger than just about anything you could hope to do with a sword or a lance and a 3/4 BAB progression. Don't neglect your spell-casting - you're totally a gish with this build and often times, while your mount is running around attacking, your best option will in fact be to cast a spell.
I'll snatch up this opportunity. I'd love to get your build!
This was the build I played 1st through 17th. The Dragoon level was taken at 9th and before that I fought alongside my eidolon with a long spear, using reach. You're a little fragile earlier on so its better not to put yourself needlessly in harm's way. Obviously the build of the eidolon and your spell selection is very important.
Half-Elven 16th level Summoner, 1st level Dragoon
Favored class option for Summoners
Attributes: (20 point buy)
STR - 15 (+2 racial bonus, +2 at 13th, 15th and 17th level, +1 at 4th)
DEX - 14
CON - 13 (+1 at 8th)
INT - 10
WIS - 10
CHA - 14 (+1 12th and 16th)
Traits:
Reactionary
Focused Mind
Feats:
1st Arcane Strike
1st Skill Focus: Survival
3rd Eldritch Heritage: Orc Bloodline
5th Power Attack
7th Furious Focus
9th Mounted Combat
9th Skill Focus: Ride
9th Weapon Focus: Lance
11th Combat Reflexes
13th Improved Eldritch Heritage: Orc Bloodline
15th Quicken Spell
17th Greater Eldritch Heritage: Orc Bloodline