Core Only tier.


Advice


Hi, I have to begin a Core Rulebook Only campaign and i want to aim to be the most broken character. We'll probably start at level 5 up till level 15, maybe more, with 25 buy points and no particular building restriction afaik. It will be a small group, we may be 3 or 4 and I just know there's gonna be a bard who said he won't help much in combat ^^ (that's also why i'd like to be as powerful as i can :P ).

Which Core-Only class do you think would be the most powerful? And why? It would be nice to also have a tier list of all the classes. Thanks!

@Reynard Thanks for the suggestions.

Sovereign Court

There isn't really a "best" in pathfinder - every class has strengths and weaknesses. A few general rules of thumb for you, though:

-Full casters start out the weakest but at high levels are generally considered the strongest, particularly Wizard and Cleric.

-Amongst full BAB classes, Barbarian is probably the easiest to make into a DPR monster, and Monk the most difficult. However, that ignores a LOT of other factors, and doesn't say much about optimized builds.

-Rogues are often considered the "weakest" class, as they don't receive as many bonuses to hit and damage as most of the other melee classes. However, that speaks nothing about their out-of-combat abilities - Rogue Talents feature many capabilities found nowhere else in Pathfinder. A competently built Strength-based or Dervish Dance rogue can certainly compete with other classes for damage.

In general, asking for the "best" class will start a giant flame war. In fact, I fully expect to have been ninja'd by several such posts. Good luck with your campaign though!

PS: If you want specific help, you should probably list:
-the levels the game will see
-point buy & other building restrictions
-info on other party members

Silver Crusade

also, what do you mean by "most powerful" do you mean strongest? most versatile? able to take on several different several different challenges at once.

(Most broken at level 15+ is def. the wizard or cleric) (but only in certain ways.


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I'm curious: Why do you want the most broken character?


Considering the group will be quite small i guess some versatility is required. Is the wizard considered better than the sorcerer in PF? I used to like the sorcerer more in dnd but if the wizard usually has the edge in power i may use it instead. About the cleric, you mean caster only?

@Jaelithe Mmmm, well, i was never a power player so i guess i wanna try something new ^^. I'd just like to know which classes are generally considered more powerful and for which reason (so that i can orient myself better while building the character), even if i know people may have different opinions.

Sovereign Court

Ooh, 25 point buy, nice. With a 25 point buy you should be able to make just about any class effective. When it comes to classes, some are SAD - Single Ability Dependent - and some are MAD - Multiple Ability Dependent. For example:

-Wizards are SAD - pump their Int up high enough and you're fine.
-Monks, on the other hand, are MAD - they need Strength to deal damage, Dex and Wis for AC, and Con to not die after two rounds of fighting.
-Paladins are in the middle - they want both Strength and Charisma as high as possible, and generally want a good Constitution, but since they can wear heavy armor and get Cha to saves they don't really need much Dex, Wis, or Int.

With 25 points, though, you can afford to pump multiple stats up to respectable levels. So the difference between a 10 point buy Barbarian & Monk is much bigger than the difference between a 25 point buy build of the same classes.

For a small group, it's generally important to make sure you cover 3 roles:

1. Casting
2. Fighting
3. Skills (including Party Face)

Most classes can take care of some combination of those. For a 4-man group including a bard, I would recommend these in the remaining slots:

-Sorcerer/Wizard/Witch - much casting, such arcane
-Cleric/Oracle - to patch you up and help with face-smashing
-Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger/Paladin/other full BAB class - to actually kill things

It doesn't matter too much, though, as long as you can cover those 3 roles. See if you can convince the Bard to go archer - human bards are quite good at it. Also, just about any full-casting class can do a great job just summoning monsters if you feel your front line is too empty, particularly if they take Augment Summoning... but I wouldn't recommend it unless the person doing so is an experienced player.

EDIT: As to Wizard vs. Sorcerer, they're pretty even in power; it comes down to personal preference/playstyle. Both get bonus feats and special abilities (arcane school/bloodline); wizards make great encyclopedias thanks to their Intelligence and knowledges, whereas sorcerers make great party faces thanks to their Charisma. In general, wizards require a lot more paperwork & forethought, but overall let you tailor your prepared spells to specific situations and get a more varied spellcasting experience.


How far are you going to go? A couple levels? Melee, like Barb would be great. A good long time? Wizards and Sorcerers are beast.


A Druid is pretty much the best of all worlds. You're a powerful caster and from level 5 onwards, a beast of a martial.


Scavion wrote:
A Druid is pretty much the best of all worlds. You're a powerful caster and from level 5 onwards, a beast of a martial.

And can summon if you're still lacking people. I second the druid choice.


Druid or paladin gets my vote. The paladin is a great fighter, partial caster, good bandaid, tough defenses, good mouthpiece ,best saves from core. Druid gets an animal companion, can melee well, and is full caster with spontaneous SNA. I'd be proud to have either of those with me at any time.

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