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On another note, one minor pet peeve I have is having to explain to every new player that putting ranks into the Fly skill does not give them the ability to fly, and that they can't even PUT ranks in it unless they have fly from another source.
My Aasimar is listening to a lot of R Kelly and Bette Midler in preparation for his wings so that when they do grow he knows how to use them properly.
I still dispute the notion that accurate copies of the rules can't be found anywhere on the internet and that the rulebook HAS to be owned by someone in the group in order to play, but that's a digression. In the 3.5 example you listed, I think it would have been fine if they had an actual, detailed print-out of the rules for the abilities they were trying to use so the GM could see and approve them.
Not without violating WotC's intellectual proprery rights and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
Yeah, yeah, I know "it's not really stealing," and "everyone does it," and "you'll never get caught," and "information wants to be free", etc, etc. It's against the law, and I will not condone breaking it.
While I never approved of WotC's decision to lock all of its IP, it's their property, and they can release it or lock it behind a paywall as they see fit.
I've thought about relaxing the rule for my PFRPG game, given Paizo's choice to release so much under the OGL, and the presence of so much of their other content on sources like d20PFRPG and PathfinderWiki. Jury's still out though.
Honestly, one thing that attracted my group to PFRPG back in 2010 was that it was a "you only need to buy one book" RPG.
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Yeah! Stupid players -- stop having your own fun! Only MY fun is important! Mine!I dislike when players make a comedy out of a scene I had imagined to be serious/dramatic.This. A billion trillion times this. And more.
Oh come on - that's not fair at all. Haven't you ever experienced where there's a beloved NPC who dies, and when the GM is explaining how other NPCs are reacting, or other players describe how their characters are reacting, one of the players says something stupid like "I want to steal his sword before he is buried."
This of course leads to the GM ignoring the player, or scoffing, and then continuing on. Then the player gets peeved and says "No, I really want to steal his sword." So then the GM says "You really want to try to steal his sword while the captain of the guard, forty soldiers, the high priest, and the queen are attending the funeral?"
Then the player of course says "Oh, I didn't know they were there." And do you know why the player didn't know? Because they weren't paying attention and trying to craft their "clever" joke.
I'm all for jokes at the table if they fit the mood. Guy critically misses? Perfect time for a joke. Guy casts a spell and hits one of his allies, sure, joke away.
But then there are other times where jokes are not appropriate, because they don't fit the scene. As such, they break immersion, and then we have to try to get immersed all over again.
It's very annoying.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Players who discuss strategy out of character in the middle of combat.THIS. Everything else that has been mentioned in this thread, also. But THIS. You mean to tell me that you just busted down the door into the enemy stronghold, and NOW you stop to strategize, even as the fort guards surround you, weapons in hand?
I have a house rule that talking is a free action that can be done ONLY on your turn (normally it's a free action you can do whenever). Also, that free action gives you 6 seconds of talking. So you can strategize somewhat, but you can't really formulate 10 minutes worth of battle plan in the surprise round. And you can't get a reply until your buddy's turn.
Telepathy allows you to circumvent all of these restrictions, so spells like telepathic bond become as valuable as you'd expect a 5th level spell to be.
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Yeah! Stupid players -- stop having your own fun! Only MY fun is important! Mine!I dislike when players make a comedy out of a scene I had imagined to be serious/dramatic.This. A billion trillion times this. And more.Oh come on - that's not fair at all. Haven't you ever experienced where there's a beloved NPC who dies, and when the GM is explaining how other NPCs are reacting, or other players describe how their characters are reacting, one of the players says something stupid like "I want to steal his sword before he is buried."
This of course leads to the GM ignoring the player, or scoffing, and then continuing on. Then the player gets peeved and says "No, I really want to steal his sword." So then the GM says "You really want to try to steal his sword while the captain of the guard, forty soldiers, the high priest, and the queen are attending the funeral?"
Then the player of course says "Oh, I didn't know they were there." And do you know why the player didn't know? Because they weren't paying attention and trying to craft their "clever" joke.
I'm all for jokes at the table if they fit the mood. Guy critically misses? Perfect time for a joke. Guy casts a spell and hits one of his allies, sure, joke away.
But then there are other times where jokes are not appropriate, because they don't fit the scene. As such, they break immersion, and then we have to try to get immersed all over again.
It's very annoying.
Stuff like this happens all the time -- trying to set a somber mood, such as in your example, an important and/or beloved character dying, and someone cracks a joke. I have one player who just loves to interrupt and makes smart-ass comment after smart-ass comment, WHILE AN NPC IS SPEAKING. He also loves to make fart jokes mid-combat (I'll admit, they can be hit or miss -- hah). After all that giggling you'd think I was playing with like, I dunno, 10 year olds, not grown adult men.
I'm not saying nobody has but this is the very first time I have ever heard that anybody has thought that the fly skill would allow you to do so. The fact its happened so many times for someone to become a peeve for them is hard to believe.
It might be relevant to point out that almost every player I've had goes for hybrid/medium BAB class with access to spells and, in these cases, Fly is listed as a class skill.
Except in the one case I mentioned, it wasn't assumed that simply putting points into it let you fly, but there were at least three times where we were making 1st level characters and when we got to skill points and the player asked something along the lines of "It says Fly is a class skill... does that mean if I put points into it, I can fly?" or at least starts to ask it before I start my explanation (I have a problem with cutting people off sometimes in conversation).
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Stuff like this happens all the time -- trying to set a somber mood, such as in your example, an important and/or beloved character dying, and someone cracks a joke. I have one player who just loves to interrupt and makes smart-ass comment after smart-ass comment, WHILE AN NPC IS SPEAKING. He also loves to make fart jokes mid-combat (I'll admit, they can be hit or miss -- hah). After all that giggling you'd think I was playing with like, I dunno, 10 year...Yeah! Stupid players -- stop having your own fun! Only MY fun is important! Mine!I dislike when players make a comedy out of a scene I had imagined to be serious/dramatic.This. A billion trillion times this. And more.Oh come on - that's not fair at all. Haven't you ever experienced where there's a beloved NPC who dies, and when the GM is explaining how other NPCs are reacting, or other players describe how their characters are reacting, one of the players says something stupid like "I want to steal his sword before he is buried."
This of course leads to the GM ignoring the player, or scoffing, and then continuing on. Then the player gets peeved and says "No, I really want to steal his sword." So then the GM says "You really want to try to steal his sword while the captain of the guard, forty soldiers, the high priest, and the queen are attending the funeral?"
Then the player of course says "Oh, I didn't know they were there." And do you know why the player didn't know? Because they weren't paying attention and trying to craft their "clever" joke.
I'm all for jokes at the table if they fit the mood. Guy critically misses? Perfect time for a joke. Guy casts a spell and hits one of his allies, sure, joke away.
But then there are other times where jokes are not appropriate, because they don't fit the scene. As such, they break immersion, and then we have to try to get immersed all over again.
It's very annoying.
The worst thing similar to this that I had to deal with was when my group faced a Forlarren (with some class levels to make it boss-worthy) that had been plaguing a town, and, after they subdued it and tied it up, I got into a very emotional roleplaying scene with one player who was trying to find out why the forlarren was so angry and why it was all but asking them to end it's life.
And another player was bored with it so he just up and stabbed the forlarren with his cold iron dagger.
You just don't do that, man...
Stuff like this happens all the time -- trying to set a somber mood, such as in your example, an important and/or beloved character dying, and someone cracks a joke. I have one player who just loves to interrupt and makes smart-ass comment after smart-ass comment, WHILE AN NPC IS SPEAKING. He also loves to make fart jokes mid-combat (I'll admit, they can be hit or miss -- hah). After all that giggling you'd think I was playing with like, I dunno, 10 year olds, not grown adult men.
Women are not any better. My first time DMing, I had to veto seventeen names from the women players because they were all various puns on big breasts. They were planning on convincing the rest of the group to also play female characters and calling the party The Jigglers.
Then I read the character description of one player who was really insistent on the punny names. It had eight different ways of saying the character was large-chested and pretty much amounted to four paragraphs of describing the character's "assets" and two sentences on the rest of the appearance and history. I had to remind her that studded leather armor doesn't consist of a strap of leather across the chest, a loin cloth, and a paddle.
My only real peeve is players with unreliable attendance. I get that things come up and things happen, but at least try to let me know earlier than an half hour before game.Totally agree with this. Or claim they have no time to join yet seem to have all the time in the world to do other stuff. Don't want to join my game. That's fine. Don't tell me you have no free time.
I don't understand this. Some people do not have any free time; maybe they have multiple jobs, multiple children, etc. When my youngest daughter was born, I had no free time for a very long time. Still, those with no free time shouldn't be involved in such a time-intensive hobby as RPG's to begin with, but that's on them.
Really, what they do outside of the scheduled game time is none of your business, whether they are busy or not.
If the issue is poor attendance, then deal with that, not their time-management. Poor attendance is bad, no matter what the excuse; unless a compromise has been worked out with the DM and group ahead of time.
My only real peeve is players with unreliable attendance. I get that things come up and things happen, but at least try to let me know earlier than an half hour before game.Totally agree with this. Or claim they have no time to join yet seem to have all the time in the world to do other stuff. Don't want to join my game. That's fine. Don't tell me you have no free time.I don't understand this. Some people do not have any free time; maybe they have multiple jobs, multiple children, etc. When my youngest daughter was born, I had no free time for a very long time. Still, those with no free time shouldn't be involved in such a time-intensive hobby as RPG's to begin with, but that's on them.
Really, what they do outside of the scheduled game time is none of your business, whether they are busy or not.
If the issue is poor attendance, then deal with that, not their time-management. Poor attendance is bad, no matter what the excuse; unless a compromise has been worked out with the DM and group ahead of time.
This was sort of addressed earlier but I'll say it again:
The issue, Josh, is that in this case the person is clearly lying about whether or not they have time because they don't want to play for some other reason they're hiding from you.
For instance, they claim to be too busy and yet you see that they're playing TF2 steam for what looks like the entire duration of your sessions every day. It could just be that TRPGs aren't there thing, which is fine, but one should just SAY that, rather than be dishonest.
Being dishonest isn't preferable in-and-of-itself, but it also can leave one feeling like they're being shunned, or that the person in question doesn't think they're "mature enough" to handle being turned down for a game.
My only real peeve is players with unreliable attendance. I get that things come up and things happen, but at least try to let me know earlier than an half hour before game.Totally agree with this. Or claim they have no time to join yet seem to have all the time in the world to do other stuff. Don't want to join my game. That's fine. Don't tell me you have no free time.I don't understand this. Some people do not have any free time; maybe they have multiple jobs, multiple children, etc. When my youngest daughter was born, I had no free time for a very long time. Still, those with no free time shouldn't be involved in such a time-intensive hobby as RPG's to begin with, but that's on them.
Really, what they do outside of the scheduled game time is none of your business, whether they are busy or not.
If the issue is poor attendance, then deal with that, not their time-management. Poor attendance is bad, no matter what the excuse; unless a compromise has been worked out with the DM and group ahead of time.
This was sort of addressed earlier but I'll say it again:
The issue, Josh, is that in this case the person is clearly lying about whether or not they have time because they don't want to play for some other reason they're hiding from you.
For instance, they claim to be too busy and yet you see that they're playing TF2 steam for what looks like the entire duration of your sessions every day. It could just be that TRPGs aren't there thing, which is fine, but one should just SAY that, rather than be dishonest.
Being dishonest isn't preferable in-and-of-itself, but it also can leave one feeling like they're being shunned, or that the person in question doesn't think they're "mature enough" to handle being turned down for a game.
Well, it's not really lying. They just prioritize TF2 more than playing a RPG. That's brutal honesty if I ever saw it.
If a person is busy, they are busy. It's kind of painful to think a person would rather spend their time behind a computer screen, than with RL friends interacting in a shared activity, but for some people it's the truth. Heck, maybe the person is part of an online clan/team/guild and they had a scheduled event that night.
Myself personally, the few times I get to "see" some friends is when we play online games on xbox live; one moved to Texas, another moved to Miami, while I live in Ohio. We play on XBL as our way of "visiting with friends," and those visits do rank a decently high priority. Sometimes over playing a table-top RPG.
Also, sometimes being "busy" simply means they have to be somewhere. Maybe the person is dog-sitting for someone, and is just playing some TF2 while the dog hangs out. there are infinite possibilities here.
The real issue I see is the communication; if the person really doesn't want to play that RPG, they should up and say it. Resorting to saying "sorry I've been busy" is a half-hearted attempt to excuse their lack of interest, so there I agree with you. If a person is only going to show up some of the time, they should just quit the game and save everyone some sanity.
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My only real peeve is players with unreliable attendance. I get that things come up and things happen, but at least try to let me know earlier than an half hour before game.Totally agree with this. Or claim they have no time to join yet seem to have all the time in the world to do other stuff. Don't want to join my game. That's fine. Don't tell me you have no free time.I don't understand this. Some people do not have any free time; maybe they have multiple jobs, multiple children, etc. When my youngest daughter was born, I had no free time for a very long time. Still, those with no free time shouldn't be involved in such a time-intensive hobby as RPG's to begin with, but that's on them.
Really, what they do outside of the scheduled game time is none of your business, whether they are busy or not.
If the issue is poor attendance, then deal with that, not their time-management. Poor attendance is bad, no matter what the excuse; unless a compromise has been worked out with the DM and group ahead of time.
This was sort of addressed earlier but I'll say it again:
The issue, Josh, is that in this case the person is clearly lying about whether or not they have time because they don't want to play for some other reason they're hiding from you.
For instance, they claim to be too busy and yet you see that they're playing TF2 steam for what looks like the entire duration of your sessions every day. It could just be that TRPGs aren't there thing, which is fine, but one should just SAY that, rather than be dishonest.
Being dishonest isn't preferable in-and-of-itself, but it also can leave one feeling like they're being shunned, or that the person in question doesn't think they're "mature enough" to handle being turned down for a game.
This is starting to get creepy. They may be lying because they dont want to get into it with somebody who is going to track them and get mad if they dont play in their games. I get it, its a lie and it sucks, but sometimes you have to put things together from what people say and not get upset if they choose not to be direct.
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We had a player that stopped showing up for quite a while. It got to the point that, when he would call in sick or with a bizarre emergency every week, we would act all dramatic and surprised, and started naming last-minute absenteeism after him. Invariably, he would then post to Facebook during the course of the session with enthusiasm and game commentary for whatever sport was in season, no trace of sickness in his posts. He eventually officially left the game, ostensibly because he didn't have enough time (but also possibly because he and I had always clashed).
On a somewhat related note, I would think a big DM Peeve would be when you plan a session dealing with one particular player's storyline, then that player can't show up. Not necessarily much you can do about that, but man is it annoying.
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This is starting to get creepy. They may be lying because they dont want to get into it with somebody who is going to track them and get mad if they dont play in their games. I get it, its a lie and it sucks, but sometimes you have to put things together from what people say and not get upset if they choose not to be direct.
You are aware that steam gives you a notification when one of your steam friends starts playing a game?
If a player of mine says that he can't come to the game because he has something really important to do, and then I get a notification saying that he just fired up Crayon Physics, I'm gonna be very insulted. And never invite him to a game again.
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What would you guys do if a player called and said, "Dude ... I've had a really bad day, don't want to take it out on you guys, don't want to play and think I'm just going to veg, watch Classic Star Trek and brood"? If it wasn't a regular occurrence, I'd just say, "Feel better, man. We've all been there."
We'd go over to his place with hooch and snacks most probably...
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I don't understand this. Some people do not have any free time; maybe they have multiple jobs, multiple children, etc. When my youngest daughter was born, I had no free time for a very long time. Still, those with no free time shouldn't be involved in such a time-intensive hobby as RPG's to begin with, but that's on them.Really, what they do outside of the scheduled game time is none of your business, whether they are busy or not.
If the issue is poor attendance, then deal with that, not their time-management. Poor attendance is bad, no matter what the excuse; unless a compromise has been worked out with the DM and group ahead of time.
I agree sometimes people dont have the time because they are busy. What I take issue with is them saying they have no time. Yet on Facebook or publically saying and doing the opposite. Fine want to spend time doing something else do it. Dont waste my time by making excuses because they are afraid to hurt my feelings. Which did happen to me in my earlier days of running games. Two guys really did not want to play rpgs yet came anyway. I found out from another player that they kept coming because they felt sorry for me.
Really, what they do outside of the scheduled game time is none of your business, whether they are busy or not.
I make it my business when they waste my time and the players time. So sorry you dont get to say its none of your business when your wasting my time. Its hard enough to schedule games on a regular basis as Im getting older. I dont have time to waste on people who are too cowardly to tell me the tuth.
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What would you guys do if a player called and said, "Dude ... I've had a really bad day, don't want to take it out on you guys, don't want to play and think I'm just going to veg, watch Classic Star Trek and brood"? If it wasn't a regular occurrence, I'd just say, "Feel better, man. We've all been there."
We all have bad days. When it starts happening all the time is when I would ask th player if he was still interested.
I have a player who shows up because he has nothing better to do on a saturday and because he is getting a lift from his brother. Which is fins except he just sits there not participating much. I began a side story with a npc. Each time I have to nudge the player into roleplaying. So at the end of the AP Im kind of stuck. I cant invite one without the other.
Healthy people make some time for the things we care about. Sometimes gaming is just not as high on that list.
It's the people that don't make time that I worry about...
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This is starting to get creepy. They may be lying because they dont want to get into it with somebody who is going to track them and get mad if they dont play in their games. I get it, its a lie and it sucks, but sometimes you have to put things together from what people say and not get upset if they choose not to be direct.You are aware that steam gives you a notification when one of your steam friends starts playing a game?
If a player of mine says that he can't come to the game because he has something really important to do, and then I get a notification saying that he just fired up Crayon Physics, I'm gonna be very insulted. And never invite him to a game again.
Seems a bit obsessive to me. Tracking their activity time and holding it against a person. My whole point is that if they are not interested drop them and who cares about their reasoning. If you dont then you end up having people show up because they feel sorry for you. That may make them liars or jerks but do you want to game with them if thats true anyways?
Seems a bit obsessive to me. Tracking their activity time and holding it against a person. My whole point is that if they are not interested drop them and who cares about their reasoning. If you dont then you end up having people show up because they feel sorry for you. That may make them liars or jerks but do you want to game with them if thats true anyways?
A.) No one is tracking anyone's activity. There's a little window that pops up anytime one of your friends starts a game through the Steam Client. I'm sure there's a way to disable it if they want.
B.) Agreeing to be a player in a campaign is comparable to a verbal contract. As a player you're agreeing to play, show up on time, be polite, etc. And the GM is agreeing to spend their precious free time creating a campaign world/adventures/npcs so that everyone can have fun. If something urgent comes up, or there is an emergency, you of course are not expected to show up. If you call ahead of time saying you can't make it, cool. But agreeing to play and then ditching is simply rude.
C.) Unless a GM is pressuring people to play that don't really want to play, I don't understand the problem with players simply saying "I can't/don't want to commit to playing in this campaign." In my current campaign, we have 5 players. One player has missed 3 or 4 sessions, and two players have missed 1 session. All of them gave notice ahead of time, and there was no problem. To me it is common courtesy and expected adult behavior.
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I too can't stand the cascade of everyone having to roll the same skill one person asked to use. Suddenly everyone's talking about tree moss and taking the gauge of the sun, to tell where they are. Or the entire party, all stop to peer over someone's shoulder so they'll have the excuse to roll arcana. I hate it when players play the law of averages like that.
Oh I rolled a five, and I'm trained in it. Bob you're untrained, give it a try.
Nineteen!
Okay so the idiot barbarian knows but not the learned mage.
I also hate everyone asking the entire party for aid another attempts too.
Hell when I am wrong, I play it straight.
"Well you see, that's what we call a werewolf, they've got this poisonous bite that turns you into an undead."
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Wow–I like this thread because all of this happens everywhere, all the time. This is a good catharsis for GMs who need to vent.
PAX's Top 3 Pet Peeves:
> So much babbling incessantly about rules that it buzz-kills any creative thinking (and role-playing) whatsoever.
> Continued babbling about rules that no longer apply to the situation, because the rest of the group has moved on, but the rules buzz-kill continues.
> Rules babbling aside between players about things that don't even apply to the current scenario, their characters, nor anything in the foreseeable future.
What is it with players these days that they cannot control themselves? Its like paranoia that someone will suddenly quiz about the rules, mixed with a haughty show-off attitude of superiority just because they can recall something written in the rulebook.
This happens wherever I go, any meet up group, any PFS game store, conventions, even home groups. WTF?
*breaths deeply* "Ahhhhhhhhhhh. That feel better now, doesn't it?"
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This has turned into a big derail my apologies.
I am agreeing with you guys that bailing and lying is a load of b~%!*!*s. However, what I find obsessive is worrying what they are doing instead and getting worked up about it. Bailing out to play vids sends a crystal clear message to me. Adios, so long thanks for playing. If the person comes back and says I'm sorry id like to stay in the group I'll give them a second chance. Otherwise, problem solved time to move on.
I don't understand this. Some people do not have any free time; maybe they have multiple jobs, multiple children, etc. When my youngest daughter was born, I had no free time for a very long time. Still, those with no free time shouldn't be involved in such a time-intensive hobby as RPG's to begin with, but that's on them.Really, what they do outside of the scheduled game time is none of your business, whether they are busy or not.
If the issue is poor attendance, then deal with that, not their time-management. Poor attendance is bad, no matter what the excuse; unless a compromise has been worked out with the DM and group ahead of time.
I agree sometimes people dont have the time because they are busy. What I take issue with is them saying they have no time. Yet on Facebook or publically saying and doing the opposite. Fine want to spend time doing something else do it. Dont waste my time by making excuses because they are afraid to hurt my feelings. Which did happen to me in my earlier days of running games. Two guys really did not want to play rpgs yet came anyway. I found out from another player that they kept coming because they felt sorry for me.
I make it my business when they waste my time and the players time. So sorry you dont get to say its none of your business when your wasting my time. Its hard enough to schedule games on a regular basis as Im getting older. I dont have time to waste on people who are too cowardly to tell me the tuth.
Really, what they do outside of the scheduled game time is none of your business, whether they are busy or not.
It really sounds like your issue is with their communication, not that they are actually busy. We're mashing two different issues together like they're the same thing, when they're really not(person with no free time vs. lying jerk player).
If the person in question did all that you mention above, then deal with that player accordingly. That player has issues with your game, that apparently have nothing to do with what they have going on in their own time. For whatever reason, this person is lying; either to save your feelings, or to save face, they aren't being honest with you.
Other than that, yeah, what people do outside of your scheduled game time is really none of your business; the only portion of time that they are able to waste is the time between the session's start and finish. As long as they show up to your game, or at least contact you about not being able to show up(within reason according to your group's policies), you aren't the boss of anyone.
If they contact you ahead of time to let you know they won't be at the game session(regardless of reason/excuse), I'm having a hard time sympathizing over "wasted time." Now, if they simply no-call/no-show, and later cite being too busy, then you have my sympathies. Since you mention that gaming sessions are difficult for your group to schedule in the first place, then you should have some kind of "Plan B" for when someone can't make it to the session(DM runs the character, character sits out, etc).
Other than that, yeah, what people do outside of your scheduled game time is really none of your business; the only portion of time that they are able to waste is the time between the session's start and finish. As long as they show up to your game, or at least contact you about not being able to show up(within reason according to your group's policies), you aren't the boss of anyone.
If they contact you ahead of time to let you know they won't be at the game session(regardless of reason/excuse), I'm having a hard time sympathizing over "wasted time." Now, if they simply no-call/no-show, and later cite being too busy, then you have my sympathies. Since you mention that gaming sessions are difficult for your group to schedule in the first place, then you should have some kind of "Plan B" for when someone can't make it to the session(DM runs the character, character sits out, etc).
Ostensibly, all of the people we game with are our friends. Let's take a non-gaming situation. You've put together a card tournament which requires a number of players divisible by 4. You let your friends know, and one of them tells you he wants to play. Then, on the day of the tournament that same friend calls you 1 hour before the tournament and cancels, citing that he's busy or "something came up."
You later find out (through online notification or whatever) that your friend instead spent the time playing WOW or some other online game.
Do you as a friend have the right to be upset that a.) your friend ditched, b.) your friend lied, or at least, mislead you by telling you he was busy.
Personally, I say yes to both. If the friend calls me 1 hour beforehand and ditches, it tells me he doesn't respect my time, or anyone else that is participating in the tournament.
Exceptions: If there is some kind of valid reason or emergency for why the person has to ditch.
The reason B now becomes important is that the friend is trying to use the "I have a valid reason for cancelling" rationale. If they do have a valid reason, they're off the hook. If they don't, then I have every right to be upset about it. If they lie about having a valid reason, then I'd be even more upset.
So no, its not really any of my business what they're doing in that time frame, but if they are expecting me to be cool with them ditching, I want a valid reason from them.
Again, this should be expected adult behavior.
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However, what I find obsessive is worrying what they are doing instead and getting worked up about it. Bailing out to play vids sends a crystal clear message to me.
And let's all just be reminded this is "GM Pet Peeves" and not "GM reasons-that-I-never-talk-to-you-again". I get upset when people are dishonest with me or ditch me in the same way I get upset when my packages don't arrive on time or someone takes my sandwich order at Never On Sundays. It puts me in a bad mood but it doesn't ruin my day.
It's sends less of a crystal clear message than "Hey, I really can't focus on this right now, I had a bad day" or "I have a lot of fun hanging out, but I just can't get into these games, I wish I could" does. These are more polite, honest ways to communicate the same thought.
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"mob", "DPR", "dam", "tank", "trash", etc. We are not playing WoW. Grow up. Our communication is not a problem to be utterly minimized while people spank trash and do boss runs. Seriously.
Joking about NPC names and never memorizing any of them, and feeling justified in this. I put thought into the various names, and I take care not to make them blather.
Ruining a dramatic scene with a joke.
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Other than that, yeah, what people do outside of your scheduled game time is really none of your business; the only portion of time that they are able to waste is the time between the session's start and finish. As long as they show up to your game, or at least contact you about not being able to show up(within reason according to your group's policies), you aren't the boss of anyone.
If they contact you ahead of time to let you know they won't be at the game session(regardless of reason/excuse), I'm having a hard time sympathizing over "wasted time." Now, if they simply no-call/no-show, and later cite being too busy, then you have my sympathies. Since you mention that gaming sessions are difficult for your group to schedule in the first place, then you should have some kind of "Plan B" for when someone can't make it to the session(DM runs the character, character sits out, etc).
Ostensibly, all of the people we game with are our friends. Let's take a non-gaming situation. You've put together a card tournament which requires a number of players divisible by 4. You let your friends know, and one of them tells you he wants to play. Then, on the day of the tournament that same friend calls you 1 hour before the tournament and cancels, citing that he's busy or "something came up."
You later find out (through online notification or whatever) that your friend instead spent the time playing WOW or some other online game.
Do you as a friend have the right to be upset that a.) your friend ditched, b.) your friend lied, or at least, mislead you by telling you he was busy.
Personally, I say yes to both. If the friend calls me 1 hour beforehand and ditches, it tells me he doesn't respect my time, or anyone else that is participating in the tournament.
Exceptions: If there is some kind of valid reason or emergency for why the person has to ditch.
The reason B now becomes important is that the friend is trying to use the "I have a valid reason for cancelling" rationale. If...
Frankly, I've gamed with so many no-call/no-shows over the years, that a phone call 1 hour before the game session is perfectly allowable to me. It's a game, not a meeting of Congress. The imaginary fantasy world isn't going to collapse if one person doesn't make it to one session.
It's all subjective; we all have different levels of tolerance, etc, I'm just trying to shine a different light on the situation.
I have to ask though, why is it so terrible if the person in question plays an online game, instead of showing up for a table-top one? When table-top players talk condescendingly about video-game players, I can't help but see the exact same kind of snobby attitude as when athletic types would make fun of "D&D nerds."
How we choose to spend our free time is entirely up to us, and if a person derives more satisfaction and fulfillment from playing a video game, versus playing a table-top one, why is that so wrong? Maybe that person was low on gas/money, maybe they weren't feeling well and didn't want to go out. There's a million reasons why a person would choose to do one thing over another. So long as proper communication is given, why it is so terrible if a person does something else fun instead of TTRPG?
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I'd say my biggest DM pet peeve is people who take this stuff way, way too seriously. It's a game; a social activity amongst friends. Trying to enforce iron law, contracts, watching people's activities outside of gaming, super-duper serious dramatic stuff, just sort of kills a lot of what table-top gaming was originally supposed to be about, to me.
Sure, there's ample room for creative outlet, but the fun of the table trumps all, in my opinion. Doesn't matter how much thought I put into a plot or storyline, doesn't matter how many maps I've drawn up; if the players aren't having fun with it, it goes back on the shelf and we do something else.
I have to ask though, why is it so terrible if the person in question plays an online game, instead of showing up for a table-top one? When table-top players talk condescendingly about video-game players, I can't help but see the exact same kind of snobby attitude as when athletic types would make fun of "D&D nerds."
It's not about hating on video game players. It's about respecting your fellow gamers.
I can only speak for myself but when I run a game I expect every person to attend. My players made a weekly commitment to each other. If one person can't make it we play some other game or take the night off. So yeah if Jimbo takes the night off to play a video game it would upset my players a lot.
It's about respect.
I have to ask though, why is it so terrible if the person in question plays an online game, instead of showing up for a table-top one? When table-top players talk condescendingly about video-game players, I can't help but see the exact same kind of snobby attitude as when athletic types would make fun of "D&D nerds."It's not about hating on video game players. It's about respecting your fellow gamers.
I can only speak for myself but when I run a game I expect every person to attend. My players made a weekly commitment to each other. If one person can't make it we play some other game or take the night off. So yeah if Jimbo takes the night off to play a video game it would upset my players a lot.
It's about respect.
If Jimbo gave ample notice that he wasn't going to show up, then how is his not being there disrespectful? if someone doesn't feel like playing in my game, I'd rather they not show up, than show up because they felt forced to and not enjoy themselves.
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Other than that, yeah, what people do outside of your scheduled game time is really none of your business; the only portion of time that they are able to waste is the time between the session's start and finish. As long as they show up to your game, or at least contact you about not being able to show up(within reason according to your group's policies), you aren't the boss of anyone.
Here the thing its all fine to say your business is your won when its only between you and me. When I have to also include five others players in the equation its not that simple. I game with a bunch of 30-40 year olds with families and full time jobs. Its not only unfair it sucks balls when I have to cancel a game the day off the because some guy cant be bothered to let me know ahead of time or too afraid. Or wants to do something else. Its a royal pain to reschedule everything and a waste of our collective time. So please I get your point yet its not okay to waste my time becayse your time is precious and personal. People cant have it both ways.
If they contact you ahead of time to let you know they won't be at the game session(regardless of reason/excuse), I'm having a hard time sympathizing over "wasted time." Now, if they simply no-call/no-show, and later cite being too busy, then you have my sympathies. Since you mention that gaming sessions are difficult for your group to schedule in the first place, then you should have some kind of "Plan B" for when someone can't make it to the session(DM runs the character, character sits out, etc).
This we agree. Except sometimes you cant always have a plan B prepared. If your group consists fo elementarty or high school students its easy to work around to a plan B most of the time. People with families and work full time its not so simple sometimes imo. All I saying is to tell me upfront if your not interested in a game. Or that Saturday you want to go out with some friends for beers. Fine. Dont tell me five mins before the game begins I had to cancel a session one time because the day before I caught a gastro.
I don think people realize how annoying it can be to have to postpone games over and over again. Or to rearrange schedules.
I don't consider "one hour before the game" to be ample notice. I've seen too many games that failed because "the tank" wasn't there, or whatever, and so it turned into a TPK. So, basically, you have four people inconvenienced because Jimbo couldn't be bothered to get out of his bathrobe.
Sometimes something genuinely urgent comes up at the last minute. My car broke down, I had to have it towed; a water pipe broke and I'm waiting for the plumber; the boss told me I had to have this report done by tomorrow; a friend from college showed up unexpectedly at the airport and I need to show her around the city.
But I wouldn't put Crayon Physics into that category. It may be important, but it's not like you have to play it RIGHT NOW. It's not time-sensitive, and the other four people waiting for you to show up at the table are. Similarly, I'd not put "I had to read Homer's Illiad in the original" into that category. It's not like that book's only going to be available tonight.
If Jimbo gave ample notice that he wasn't going to show up, then how is his not being there disrespectful? if someone doesn't feel like playing in my game, I'd rather they not show up, than show up because they felt forced to and not enjoy themselves.
Ample notice is great Josh, but if the excuse is truly and honestly to play video games then I think he/she would have to find another table to play at.
We have had the same group of friends play for 15+ years and it's because we respect each others time and commitment AND (a big AND) we share similar sensibilities.
So Jimbo (in the above scenario is disrespecting the other players time and commitment and he certainly does not share the groups sensibilities.
That's not to say we do not miss a game or two. Life happens, but video games can be paused.
-MD
Frankly, I've gamed with so many no-call/no-shows over the years, that a phone call 1 hour before the game session is perfectly allowable to me. It's a game, not a meeting of Congress. The imaginary fantasy world isn't going to collapse if one person doesn't make it to one session.
I guess it depends on the group. Our group rule is if one player (out of five players) cancels, we will play as scheduled. If two players cancel, we call the session.
Since we rotate where we play between three different player's homes, this can become very disruptive. Obviously if the player hosting cancels, we have to try to quickly get on the horn with all of the other players to change the venue. That alone can be difficult to tell SO's "Oh, we're gaming at our place now."
I have to ask though, why is it so terrible if the person in question plays an online game, instead of showing up for a table-top one? When table-top players talk condescendingly about video-game players, I can't help but see the exact same kind of snobby attitude as when athletic types would make fun of "D&D nerds."
Definitely not. I play TTRPGs, MMOs, console games, watch football on Sundays, etc. I don't classify people as "nerds" or "jocks", etc. The purpose of pointing out WOW in my example was to illustrate that the "something came up" was not important. Playing WOW, or watching football, or going shopping, whatever, is not important. "My dog just got hit by a car," "My kid is sick gotta take him to the hospital," etc. is important.
If you're the kind of player that just randomly decides you don't want to play on any given day, then please don't join the group. If you realize you're this kind of player mid-way through the campaign, or if your life circumstances change so that you're can't reliably attend, just let me know and drop out.
How we choose to spend our free time is entirely up to us, and if a person derives more satisfaction and fulfillment from playing a video game, versus playing a table-top one, why is that so wrong? Maybe that person was low on gas/money, maybe they weren't feeling well and didn't want to go out. There's a million reasons why a person would choose to do one thing over another. So long as proper communication is given, why it is so terrible if a person does something else fun instead of TTRPG?
I agree that as long as "proper communication" is given, it is not a problem. It sounds like we just disagree on what constitutes "proper communication." When we schedule sessions (at the end of the previous session), we all make sure that it works for the players. Sometimes things come up. One player's wife didn't tell him that our session date was the date they were celebrating with her in-laws. He told me as soon as he found out (1 week prior to that session date.) No problem at all.
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Other than that, yeah, what people do outside of your scheduled game time is really none of your business; the only portion of time that they are able to waste is the time between the session's start and finish. As long as they show up to your game, or at least contact you about not being able to show up(within reason according to your group's policies), you aren't the boss of anyone.
Here the thing its all fine to say your business is your won when its only between you and me. When I have to also include five others players in the equation its not that simple. I game with a bunch of 30-40 year olds with families and full time jobs. Its not only unfair it sucks balls when I have to cancel a game the day off the because some guy cant be bothered to let me know ahead of time or too afraid. Or wants to do something else. Its a royal pain to reschedule everything and a waste of our collective time. So please I get your point yet its not okay to waste my time becayse your time is precious and personal. People cant have it both ways.
This we agree. Except sometimes you cant always have a plan B prepared. If your group consists fo elementarty or high school students its easy to work around to a plan B most of the time. People with families and work full time its not so simple sometimes imo. All I saying is to tell me upfront if your not interested in a game. Or that Saturday you want to go out with some friends for beers. Fine. Dont tell me five mins...
If they contact you ahead of time to let you know they won't be at the game session(regardless of reason/excuse), I'm having a hard time sympathizing over "wasted time." Now, if they simply no-call/no-show, and later cite being too busy, then you have my sympathies. Since you mention that gaming sessions are difficult for your group to schedule in the first place, then you should have some kind of "Plan B" for when someone can't make it to the session(DM runs the character, character sits out, etc).
I do realize how annoying it is. Believe me, I've seen countless campaigns crash and burn over no-shows and poor attendance. That's why, if one person suddenly can't make it at the last minute, we still play if everyone else wants to. Or we play something else. Either way, we still make use of the time we have for the session. I refuse to allow my time to be wasted; we will do something if everyone else still wants to play something.
If multiple players can't make it, then I may cancel the session. Even then, it's not the end of the world. Watch movies, hang out, play a board game, etc.
If you cancel your entire game over one player not making it, you're going to have to expect a lot of frustrated sessions. This seems very rigid to me, so my advice is to try to be more lenient and have several back-up plans for if a player can't make it.
A player that says "That's not in Pathfinder' or 'That monster's armor class is too high!"
I'm the DM. I'll add stuff from other additions. You asked me to play it straight from the advanture path. I did so.