| Adam Chapman 109 |
I am wondering if the feat
Two-handed power strike – (+15 Str, power attack) You may add twice your strength bonus to damage when using a two-handed melee attack. Only applied during a full round combat option
Could ever be applied to the same attack action as
Overhand Chop: At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a Charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.
I understand one specifies a full round action, while the other does not, but what if you used a single attack that also requires a full-round action to make?
| Ipslore the Red |
Overhand Chop can be used with the attack action or a charge and those two only. The attack action is a type of standard action. A charge is a specific type of full-round action. Two-handed power strike applies to full-round actions such as charge. It can be used on a charge, but not on a single normal attack.
However, as Paladin of Baha-Who? said, you cannot apply the same stat bonus twice.
| CrazyGnomes |
Is Two-Handed Power Strike a 3.5 feat? The only references I found were to a couple incarnations from 3.5, as either a homebrew feat or something from Quintessential Fighter.
Anyways, the answer to your question, as given by Paladin of Baha-who? and Ipslore the Red, lies in the phrasing. Both abilities allow you to add double your Strength bonus on damage rolls. This is in place of the normal benefit of adding 1.5x your Strength bonus on damage rolls with weapons wielded in two hands. As a baseline, you deal 1x Strength bonus, which for 2-handed weapons is changed to 1.5x and for off hand weapons is changed to .5x (and back to 1x if you take the Double Slice feat). The way that it is always phrased is to change what the bonus is, not to add/subtract/multiple/divide the original bonus in order to arrive at the final bonus.
Wielding a 1-handed weapon in two hands does not tell you to "add .5x Strength bonus on top of any existing Strength bonus." If it did, and Two-Handed Power Strike was worded as "add an additional .5x Strength bonus on top of your normal Strength bonus for wielding a weapon 2-handed" and Overhand Chop had similar wording, then you might be able to combine them all and end up with something like 2.5x Strength bonus to damage. Or with wording like "add an additional 1x Strength bonus on top of your normal 1-handed Strength bonus" you might even get 3x Strength bonus.
But since that's not how these things are phrased, you just replace 1.5x Strength bonus with 2x Strength bonus and then replace that with...2x Strength bonus.
| Remy Balster |
However, as Paladin of Baha-Who? said, you cannot apply the same stat bonus twice.
False. But, that is a common misconception.
What you mean to say is probably more like ‘You cannot apply a bonus twice from the same source’.
There are cases where you apply the same stat bonus twice (or more). The stat isn't the source. Whatever feat/ability/spell/etc that gives/describes the bonus is the source.
| Lyee |
Ipslore the Red wrote:However, as Paladin of Baha-Who? said, you cannot apply the same stat bonus twice.False. But, that is a common misconception.
What you mean to say is probably more like ‘You cannot apply a bonus twice from the same source’.
There are cases where you apply the same stat bonus twice (or more). The stat isn't the source. Whatever feat/ability/spell/etc that gives/describes the bonus is the source.
A dev actually ruled that bonuses from the same attribute don't stack. I can't remember exactly where, I believe it was also on the topic of weapon damage.
| Remy Balster |
Remy Balster wrote:A dev actually ruled that bonuses from the same attribute don't stack. I can't remember exactly where, I believe it was also on the topic of weapon damage.Ipslore the Red wrote:However, as Paladin of Baha-Who? said, you cannot apply the same stat bonus twice.False. But, that is a common misconception.
What you mean to say is probably more like ‘You cannot apply a bonus twice from the same source’.
There are cases where you apply the same stat bonus twice (or more). The stat isn't the source. Whatever feat/ability/spell/etc that gives/describes the bonus is the source.
Explain HP to me then. I figured your Con modifier got factored in multiple times at higher level. No?
////
What you're referencing wasn't a ruling at all, and it would be a really weird one if it was, because it conflated modifier and bonus, and made some rather peculiar assumption while doing it. There are threads on this topic all the time.
| Lyee |
Lyee wrote:A dev actually ruled that bonuses from the same attribute don't stack. I can't remember exactly where, I believe it was also on the topic of weapon damage.JJ said it was his opinion that they should not stack.
This has not been added officially.
Right, that sounds like it. Either way, I'd definitely rule out Str-bonuses stacking.
blackbloodtroll
|
When a feat/ability/spell/etc creates a bonus, and an ability score determines that bonus, it is still the feat/ability/spell/etc that is the source.
This means if two different feats/abilities/spells/etc provide a bonus, and an ability score determines what that bonus is, for both feat/ability/spell/etc, they are still different sources.
Disagree? Houserule it.
Also, don't quote the one Dev, who goes out of his way, often, to note that he is not a rules guy, on rules questions.
It's just wrong.
| Berdache |
Two-Handed Power Strike [Fighter] Prerequisites: Power Attack, Str 15
Benefit: When wielding a weapon two handed, you apply x2 your Strength modifier to melee damage.
Normal: A character wielding a weapon two handed applies x1.5 Strength modifier to melee damage.
(nothing about having to full attack ...)
Overhand Chop (Ex)
At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.
This ability replaces Armor Training 1.
Given that one is a 3.5 feat and the other is a pathfinder alternate class ability it is hard to say if they stack in any official way.
IMO they both do the same thing(with the pathfinder ability just being more restrictive) and I would rule they did not stack. In the same way if any ability got translated from 3.5 to pathfinder (and renamed / weakened) you could not learn it twice.
If anyone disagrees with me ... just play it differently at your table
| Xaratherus |
As others have pointed out, Two-Handed Power Strike and Overhand Chop normally cannot stack because the former requires a full-round action while the latter requires an attack (standard).
You may be able to stack the two of them on a charge, since that is a full-round action. But there's some disagreement on what the meaning of 'source' is in regards to stacking bonuses from abilities.
To that end: Shamless plug! Please FAQ on the linked post. :)
| Adam Chapman 109 |
Two-Handed Power Strike [Fighter] Prerequisites: Power Attack, Str 15
Benefit: When wielding a weapon two handed, you apply x2 your Strength modifier to melee damage.
Normal: A character wielding a weapon two handed applies x1.5 Strength modifier to melee damage.
(nothing about having to full attack ...)
Overhand Chop (Ex)
At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.
This ability replaces Armor Training 1.
Given that one is a 3.5 feat and the other is a pathfinder alternate class ability it is hard to say if they stack in any official way.
IMO they both do the same thing(with the pathfinder ability just being more restrictive) and I would rule they did not stack. In the same way if any ability got translated from 3.5 to pathfinder (and renamed / weakened) you could not learn it twice.
If anyone disagrees with me ... just play it differently at your table
Where did you find that version of Two-handed power strike? I pulled mine from Ultimate feats pg 75, but I like that version better! Do you know the source?
| Remy Balster |
Two-Handed Power Strike [Fighter] Prerequisites: Power Attack, Str 15
Benefit: When wielding a weapon two handed, you apply x2 your Strength modifier to melee damage.
Normal: A character wielding a weapon two handed applies x1.5 Strength modifier to melee damage.
(nothing about having to full attack ...)
Overhand Chop (Ex)
At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.
This ability replaces Armor Training 1.
Given that one is a 3.5 feat and the other is a pathfinder alternate class ability it is hard to say if they stack in any official way.
IMO they both do the same thing(with the pathfinder ability just being more restrictive) and I would rule they did not stack. In the same way if any ability got translated from 3.5 to pathfinder (and renamed / weakened) you could not learn it twice.
If anyone disagrees with me ... just play it differently at your table
Yeah, looks like they do the same thing.
One says use 2x str modifier, the other says use 2x strength modifier... If you have both, well, you'd use 2x strength modifier.
| Remy Balster |
Overhand chop seems to say it adds twice your strength bonus, not modifier. So if you're applying twice your strength mod from the feat, that's your bonus. Overhand chop would then double that bonus.
*based on the wording given in this thread. No books on me.
Even if twice your strength modifier is the bonus to damage you add, it isn't your strength bonus. despite being derived from a strength based calculation. Strength bonus means your strength modifier, if positive.
Ex.
Adding your strength modifier to something means to add it whether it is positive or negative.
Adding your strength bonus to something means adding your strength modifier, if it is positive.
Adding your strength penalty is adding your strength modifier, if it is negative.
That last one doesn't come up very often.
We can generally assume these abilities are being used by high strength characters, so in effect they do the exact same thing as each other.
Whether you add 2x strength modifier or 2x strength bonus is inconsequential if you have a positive strength modifier, because it is the same thing.