Adam Chapman 109's page

I was recently in a game where my group got pretty much KO'ed by colour spray and was out of action for a severe amount of time. However, while unconscious it was unclear if the PC characters would regain consciousness after taking damage from other sources. In this case, the damage was caused by NPC's coup de gracing everyone, while we managed to survive the fort DC's at first. The spells unconsciousness effect lasted too long for it to matter and we died.

So basically im curious that because the spell caused an unconscious condition, does that mean there is no way to wake up before the duration expires?

Two-Handed Power Strike [Fighter] Prerequisites: Power Attack, Str 15

Benefit: When wielding a weapon two handed, you apply x2 your Strength modifier to melee damage.

Normal: A character wielding a weapon two handed applies x1.5 Strength modifier to melee damage.

(nothing about having to full attack ...)

Overhand Chop (Ex)

At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.

This ability replaces Armor Training 1.

Given that one is a 3.5 feat and the other is a pathfinder alternate class ability it is hard to say if they stack in any official way.

IMO they both do the same thing(with the pathfinder ability just being more restrictive) and I would rule they did not stack. In the same way if any ability got translated from 3.5 to pathfinder (and renamed / weakened) you could not learn it twice.

If anyone disagrees with me ... just play it differently at your table

Where did you find that version of Two-handed power strike? I pulled mine from Ultimate feats pg 75, but I like that version better! Do you know the source?

I am wondering if the feat

Two-handed power strike – (+15 Str, power attack) You may add twice your strength bonus to damage when using a two-handed melee attack. Only applied during a full round combat option

Could ever be applied to the same attack action as

Overhand Chop: At 3rd level, when a two-handed fighter makes a single attack (with the attack action or a Charge) with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls.

I understand one specifies a full round action, while the other does not, but what if you used a single attack that also requires a full-round action to make?

I don't think he was taking into account size categories either, if you use a 2 handed weapon, and can manage to get to huge or gargantuan size, you are dealing 6d6 per attack. Just sayin!

Mojorat wrote:

Pretty sure the size step bit ie based on the lycanthrope not the animal. Ie a hill giant wereboar can't infect a halfling.

Nope - its based on the animal size

Quote:

PRD

Size and Type: The creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature) gains the shapechanger subtype. The lycanthrope takes on the characteristics of some type of animal (referred to hereafter as the base animal) within one size category of the base creature's size. A lycanthrope's hybrid form is the same size as the base animal or the base creature, whichever is larger.

(emphasis mine)

In the case of a Dire lycanthrope, it says to increase the base animal's size category by 1 though. So in the case of a tiger which is large, it would be moved to huge sized.

Does this mean you wouldn't be able to shape change anymore? Or would you just ignore that part of the dire template?

This appears to be intended you get the base stats of the animal. A halfling wear tiger would get the tigers strength. It seems to be intentional.

So then no size modifiers are applied when shape changing?

If your question is only about Attack/AC/CMB/CMD adjustments, I'm confident those occur.

Edit:
Lycanthropes

Ability Scores wrote:

+2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms.

AC wrote:

In hybrid or animal form the lycanthrope has the natural armor bonus of the base animal increased by +2.

Yeah I am curious because no monster seems to have size adjustments added to them, at least through the SRD

If you take a basic tiger for example it has a 23 STR +4BAB giving it an 11 CMB, but the tiger is also Large sized.

So my question is do you have to add a size modifier to the creature, to calculate its base stats? Also in hybrid form, what kind of stat changes (if any) are applied to a PC to signify this change?

It's hard to imagine a PC character going from Med sized to Huge (over 16 feet/ 3,200 pounds)without some sort of AC/Dex nerf or CMD/CMB buff.

Thanks for your input!

Tomes are a typed bonus so I'd say they're not "base". Base would be your starter stats + any hit die increases. It's really moot though when it comes to stats. They're going to have the magical effects added in regardless. As far as I know none of the stat bonus items or effects are limited by types.

So that would mean if a character had 36 str with a +7 stat tome and and a +4 STR template, when reffering to the "base stats" of that character at 20th level (if all 5 points were put into STR) it would be 25 STR then?

Thanks a lot for your input, I'm just trying to clarify it.

I don't know what a Dire Template is so I will just stick with a normal lycanthrope.

Let's say a human lycan with no magic items has a strength of 12. The animal form makes it a 16.

If he later finds a belt to add +2 strength his human form would have 14 and the animal form would have 18.

If his human form started off with 18 then his animal form will also start with 18 since that 18 is better than the 16 the animal form has. The +2 belt gives him a +20 in both forms.

Otherwise you would just have lycanthropes shapechanging and then putting on magic items to bypass the limitation.

Yeah I know that, I was just curious as to what the term base creature refers to. It makes a large difference if "base" means "without external modifiers" or if it includes them.

If you have a 36 strength with a tome of +7 and a template of +4 STR, both of these are technically magical effects. So would they be counted under the definition of "base" or not? because that would mean you would have a 25 STR which could be boosted to 31 though shape changing, or you have a 36 (with magic) which cannot.

The base creature is whatever you are adding the template to. As an example if you add the vampire template to a human, then the human is the base creature.

So if the human is level 3 fighter then the base creature is a level 3 human fighter.

If you are using a strange template that gives you a specific score instead of using modifiers to your score then you should use that specific example. Most template will add or subtract from ability scores not just say your strength is now 36, as an example.

I suppose I should have been more specific, sorry about that. I meant in terms of the lycanthrope template, which gives you the stats (if better) of a specific creature.

In templates and the such it often, if not always, refers to a base creatures stats. In the case of a PC what does this mean exactly in terms of what you include in these stats?

Would this include ability modifications from other templates, tomes, and natural levels?

As an example a Dire weretiger would have a total of 36 strength in animal form, but if the PC had higher STR than this with the addition of other magical templates, tomes, items that would mean his STR wouldn't change past the normal +2 correct?

Also considering this would take a PC from med sized to huge sized would he not also, not gain any benefit/disadvantage from this size modification due to the fact the hybrid form's stats are worse?

Thanks for your help!

An example of the stat block including tomes/template
Tiger + Dire template : PC + Tome/templates
Str 31------------------36
Dex 17------------------18
Con 25------------------30
Int 2-------------------8
Wis 16------------------14
Cha 10------------------8