Alchemist and Sneak Attack

[Steve Danials]

I apologize for this, as I know it's been brought up before, but I wanted to ask it anyways.

I know that splash weapons can't benefit from precision damage. I know that it says that the bombs use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack, and thus (and how they work in general) are splash weapons.

My question is this: in that same line, it's said the bombs are considered weapons for feats, so why aren't they considered weapons for precision damage? It's nit-picky of me, but I've been looking through the rulebooks, and I haven't found anything that specifically says one way or the other that precision damage can't be used with bombs. It simply says that splash weapons can't benefit from it, but given how bombs are described, it could be argued that alchemist bombs are not the standard kind of splash weapon.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

[Zwordsman]

I don't know of any rulings or rules etc. but I thought you could apply precision to the direct hit, but not to any of the splash damage effects.

[Archaeik]

The issue is that the bombs target touch AC. As such, they also don't qualify for feats that would add damage, like Deadly Aim. But they do qualify for something like Weapon Focus that makes them more accurate.

[Pupsocket]

Acid flasks are also considered weapons, so your argument doesn't have much to stand on.

[Steve Danials]

Fair enough; I didn't realize there were other thrown weapons that fit the same things as bombs.

[Morgen]

Steve: They are weapons in all regards, however as they use the Thrown Splash Weapon special attack rules they are unable to deal precision-based damage as that is part of the rules in that section. What exactly are you trying to do anyway?

Zwordsman: The rule is actually in the combat chapter of the main rulebook in the Splash Weapons section. "Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as sneak attack)."

Archaeik: The text in Deadly Aim is what makes it so it can't be used to deal bonus damage using touch attacks as it specifically says it can't. It's a small but important difference. A high enough level multi-class fighter/alchemist is perfectly fine taking Weapon Specialization with bombs for bonus damage as an example of what that matters.

[Steve Danials]

In all honesty, I suppose it's just a general not understanding *why* the rules are what they are. I understand that yes, the bombs were given exceptions to be affected by weapon feats, but why are they still considered splash weapons for the purposes of precision damage?

As for what I'm doing, I have an alchemist (vivisectionist archetype) with the bomb discovery (allowing her to use bombs, as well as have a sneak attack), and I was attempting to figure out if you could stack sneak attack/bombs.

[Morgen]

They actually are a real weapon. The alchemist is even proficient with their use and there for they can take feats like weapon focus and so forth that have proficiency as a requirement.

There is no exception given to them in that regards only a simple clarification of what them being classified as weapon means.

Also what Bomb Discovery are you talking about? Where is it from? I'm not finding it in anything I've got access to here.

[RainyDayNinja]

Steve Danials wrote:

In all honesty, I suppose it's just a general not understanding *why* the rules are what they are. I understand that yes, the bombs were given exceptions to be affected by weapon feats, but why are they still considered splash weapons for the purposes of precision damage?

Because they are splash weapons. They are weapons, and they do splash damage. That makes them splash weapons. And there are rules for how splash weapons work, so these splash weapons follow the splash weapon rules. Why should it have any exceptions?

[The Morphling]

It works like this - how do you stab a specific artery or weak point with a BOMB?

You can't. It does explosive or elemental damage. You can't hit a weak spot with your precise targeting, as the weapon is too imprecise. Only critical hits (lucky shots) get you bonus damage.