I actually have the same question. If I send out a dazing fireball and follow up with a quickened fireball how are the dazed monsters able to make a reflex check?
Personally as a GM I rule it as they can't make physical based saves but they can make mental type saves. While they are in awe I still believe that they have mental "blocks" still in place.
But I have had other GMs rule that they still get to make all saves.
Dazed: The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.
I would think that the lack of a penalty to AC would imply a lack of penalty yo reflex saves as well. They can't act; doesn't say they can't react though?
Dazed: The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.
I would think that the lack of a penalty to AC would imply a lack of penalty yo reflex saves as well. They can't act; doesn't say they can't react though?
That is how the last GM I played with ruled it. Since there is no penalty to AC that means they keep their DEX.
It just doesn't sit right when I picture it. A creature pointlessly staring in a trance like state at the awesome power of a fireball! Then for a split second it snaps out of daze to jump out of the way for the next one and immediately goes back to dazed.
|
Let me make this explicitly clear. Being Dazed does not decrease your defenses whatsoever. It does not prevent you from dodging attacks. It does not prevent you from making saving throws of any sort.
The only thing is prevents you from doing, as stated in the rules, is taking actions. That means "standard actions" and "move actions" and "free actions" and "swift actions." It does not mean "breathing" and "making a reflex save" and "thinking about things" and other non-actions.
Let me make this explicitly clear. Being Dazed does not decrease your defenses whatsoever. It does not prevent you from dodging attacks. It does not prevent you from making saving throws of any sort.
The only thing is prevents you from doing, as stated in the rules, is taking actions. That means "standard actions" and "move actions" and "free actions" and "swift actions." It does not mean "breathing" and "making a reflex save" and "thinking about things" and other non-actions.
If you make a reflex save, isn't it considered "jumping/moving" out of the way? Which is an action. I know it is not an action in literal game terms but it is if you picture it in your head. I just picture a dazed creature standing dumbfounded in once spot.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
An unconscious character still gets all of his saves.
His reflex is a little lower since his DEX is effectively 0, but other than that he saves as normal.
Unless something specifically forbids a certain save (can't think of a single example), you always get one.
Steve is correct. How you flavor/fluff in your games is up to you, but you always get reflex saves, and dazed only stops you from taking actions in the "game term" sense of actions. It does not remove dex to AC or do anything more that what it says it does. If dazed did anythign more you would lose dex to AC and therefore get a penalty to AC.
Saving throws are combination of action (Reflex), physical resistance (Fortitude) or mental resistance (Will), physical and mental conditioning, experience in resisting such effects and sheer luck. That's why saving throws are always made unless voluntarily failed or condition specifically prevents taking saving throw.
I've always described dazed characters as if they're briefly incapable of making up their minds about what actions to take. They still parry blows and dodge away from fiery blasts (muscle memory FTW), but can't quite figure out what they're doing.
I've always described dazed characters as if they're briefly incapable of making up their minds about what actions to take. They still parry blows and dodge away from fiery blasts (muscle memory FTW), but can't quite figure out what they're doing.
I like this image of it. I will now use this instead of picturing them just standing in place doing nothing.
|
|
If you make a reflex save, isn't it considered "jumping/moving" out of the way? Which is an action. I know it is not an action in literal game terms but it is if you picture it in your head. I just picture a dazed creature standing dumbfounded in once spot.
Let me just highlight part of your post for you.
I know it is not an action in literal game terms
Gee. If only we were playing some sort of game with rules that defined what counts as an "action" and what "dazed" means.
I've always described dazed characters as if they're briefly incapable of making up their minds about what actions to take. They still parry blows and dodge away from fiery blasts (muscle memory FTW), but can't quite figure out what they're doing.I like this image of it. I will now use this instead of picturing them just standing in place doing nothing.
They are taking instinctual actions rather than conscious actions.