I threw a character together to join some friends in their Skull & Shackles game (they were up to the island in The Wormwood Mutiny). The game wasn't straight PF, as we were running gestalt characters, and employing Kolokotroni's magic item replacement system (some Big 6 replacement buffs, such as a +1 attack and damage with a particular weapon--the one I took at 3--and using a Super Genius Archetype overlaid on our character without replacing anything). Still, I felt that I got a good sense of what the Swashbuckler is like.
And I wasn't all that impressed.
My character:
Human Swashbuckler 3/Ninja 3
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 14
Cha 16
Feats: Weapon Finesse (moved Swashbuckler Finesse to level 1, and changed it to simply granting the feat), Combat Reflexes, Dervish Dance, and Weapon Focus (Ninja Combat Trick).
Skills: Maxed out Acrobatics, Climb, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perception, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, and dropped a rank into a few more skills.
Equipment: Scimitar (with +1 attack and damage), studded leather armor.
Observations:
-Without the Ninja's 8 skill points/level, I would have felt considerably under-skilled for the type of character I wanted to play as a Swashbuckler.
-Even with a good starting Cha, I constantly felt like I didn't have enough Panache. Of the times I used Opportune Parry, I only bothered also using Riposte once, because ensuring that I had the 1 remaining Panache for Swashbuckler Initiative and Precise Strike was more important. I was rolling poorly (no confirmed crits over all the fights to "complete" the island, despite the 18-20 weapon, though I had a lot of 15-17 rolls, which would have probably been crits after expanding the threat range).
-Opportune Parry really needs to work like Crane Wing and allow you to use the ability on attacks that HIT , rather than having to declare it before an attack is rolled. Of the 8 or 9 times I used the ability, I think 5 or 6 of those attacks would have missed my 17 AC anyway.
-Riposte needs to not cost Panache. Maybe it should trigger automatically if you succeed on OP, or require you to have 1 Panache in reserve, or...I don't know what, but I never felt comfortable using this--if I was at 3 Panache, I didn't want to be stuck at 1 and without the extra layer of defense Opportune Parry offers, even if it felt like a waste most of the time, and if I was at 2 Panache, I didn't want to remove the benefits of having that 1 point in reserve.
-Conversely, just give us more Panache! Tying it to an offensive ability or a skill check means that you're spending the stuff on your own terms, but on a defensive ability, it's a constant weighing of whether it's worth using it or not, whether using it on defense is worth losing the offensive benefits. I don't mind having to make those decisions, but I felt far less restricted with the 4 Ki points I had, than the 3, regenerating Panache, because the Ki didn't need to be kept in reserve for so many different things--I wanted 1 point left for better jumping, but otherwise was really only using it for the additional attack on a full attack.
-I only ever used the further boost on Precise Strike when I was fairly confident that my target was going to die anyway. At 3 Panache, it never felt worthwhile to use that last point for +3 damage to then not have the base 3 damage for my next round's attacks.
-The offensive potential of Swashbuckler is rather underwhelming at level 3. If I hadn't changed Swashbuckler's Finesse I would not have been able to pick up Dervish Dance, and without that, 1d6+4 once a round isn't all that impressive. Can't use Piranha Strike, because I wasn't using a light weapon, and couldn't pick up Power Attack because my ability scores were stretched thin. My other option would have been to drop Dex and boost Str, but then I'm not really playing into the class' archetype, and Power Attacking with a rapier seems weird to me.
(As an aside, it seems inappropriate that you can pick up a feat to add Dex to damage for scimitars, which aren't normally finessable, but cannot do the same for any finesse weapon)
Most of my offense came from Dervish Dance, 2d6 Sneak Attack and an occasional extra attack from Ninja. The Precise Strike "burst" would have been more valuable if I felt like I could use it a little more often. Ditto for Riposte.
-The class feels HEAVILY feat taxed. If you don't pick up Combat Reflexes, you can't use Riposte at all, and have to choose between 1 Parry per round, or one actual attack of opportunity. Then, your damage is rather poor unless you pick up Dervish Dance (and straight-jacketed into using a scimitar), which, by RAW, you can't do without purchasing a mostly redundant Weapon Finesse feat. So, that's basically 3 feats needed just to have the class kind of work.
Maybe grant Combat Reflexes for free, or grant an additional AoO usage at levels X, Y, Z, or disengage Parry from AoOs, and have it just work like a weaker Crane Wing--once per round, when successfully attacked, make an opposed attack roll, etc... In the latter case, having Riposte use an AoO isn't such a burden.
-My saves were TERRIBLE. The only reason I made any of my Fort saves was because I rolled very well on them. Bravery simply does not provide a significant enough bonus to be noteworthy--it's too small a boost vs. fear, and does nothing for any of the myriad of other Will saves that are going to destroy your character. This is true for bother this class and the fighter (although fighters don't need Cha or Int as much as Swashbucklers do). Bravery should be a +2 bonus, increasing by +2 at each iteration since it's a narrow effect.
-I used Derring-Do once to try and Acrobatics through a threatened area of a creature with 15 foot reach, rolled a 2, and failed. The swinginess of the ability has me feeling kind of underwhelmed, but it could be impressive on occasion. The two problems I have with it, though, are A) it's yet another drain on a very important, incredibly limited resource (Panache), and B) you really only want to use it when attempting something difficult that you MUST try. You're rarely or never going to try something in the hopes of Derring-Do putting you over the required DC, unless you know that you're only a point or two shy, because the gamble just isn't worth it.
-The biggest thing I feel the Swashbuckler brought to the gestalt table for my ninja was the full BAB, and that was only a difference of +1 to-hit at that level.
I feel like the Swashbuckler needs this ability to ENABLE them to do some impressive things, not give them a shot at success when they attempt something that probably won't succeed. This should somehow enable or encourage things like swinging from chandeliers, fighting while balanced on a railing, using a chair as a shield, etc... Those are all kind of difficult to encompass with the abstraction of a Deed, but something could be done, I believe.
Ultimately, I feel like the Swashbuckler class is dancing around the presence of the Duelist prestige class, which basically does most of what the Swashbuckler does, but better--it's stronger, more effective, and less convoluted. I think we (the community) would be better served by the team taking the Duelist and expanding it to 20 levels, incorporating some of the abilities from the current Swashbuckler to round things out. Leave the PrC as an option for characters of other classes who want to do the same stuff...an alternative to multiclassing base classes.
Otherwise, we need more Panache, Opportune Parry and Riposte need some cleaning up to make them more usable, Weapon Finesse needs to simply be a granted feat at level 1 (it's really not too front-loaded), something should be done about their saves (maybe give a reroll for a Panache point? or a bonus?), and Derring-Do should be made a little stronger or more reliable, because right now it's more like Derring-Don't-unless-you-really-must-and-have-Panache-to-spare.
I don't mean to be so critical, but as someone who was looking forward to the Swashbuckler (I played a single-classed version of this same character at the start of Skull and Shackles over a year ago using an updated version of the 3.5 Swashbuckler that never had a second session, and really wanted to give that character another chance), I just wasn't at all impressed with it.
Had you rolled 18+ in some of those near misses and been successful with the parry I think your conclusions would be quite different. With the expanded threat range the whole experience may have been very good.
Ive had times where a character has been wholly underwhelming due to bad luck etc but I wouldn't discount the class based on only a relatively short test period.
I may be wrong and your experience might be the norm but I'm keeping my hopes up that that isn't the case.
I don't think my experience would be much different in that case.
I would still be left with only 3 panache at any one time, with some strong reasons to want to keep 1 point in reserve at basically all times, and things that would be gobbling up the other 2 constantly. It still means that, if I use Parry and Riposte once, I can't really use Panache for anything else until I kill something or score a crit, and still means that if I use Derring-Do at all, I'm looking at some rather limited options come my next combat.
I think that even starting Panache at, maybe, 2+Cha would have greatly improved my experience with the character, or if there was an automatic way to regain points aside from resting (that is, not reliant upon scoring the final hit on a creature or rolling a crit and confirming it).
Well having it tied to a mental stat would makes sense balance wise but perhaps cap it at 3xlevel or something.
If they were to up the skills/level to 6+Int, it would take some pressure off needing a decent Int score, although Combat Expertise is still an in-theme feat for them, so that doesn't really solve a problem.
I was in the game yeti joined, it was (with yeti) a 3 person gestalt party playing skull and shackles. I was also playing in it.
In my initial reading of opportune parry I thought it worked like crane wing and not as it does (requiring you to declare before you are 'hit'). That seems to me not a very reasonable use of resources, as like yeti said, most of the times he used it he would have been missed anyway. He did plenty of damage (aided by the gestalt with ninja on several occassions) but it seemed like thats all he did.
Mind you there wasnt alot of opportunity for roleplay in this sesion (nothing on that island seemed to want to talk) so his social skills that will likely be invaluable in later sessions didnt come into play.
In terms of balancing it against the fighter, I think the swashbuckler is ok numbers wise, if a little lacking in options of combat style. Damage is ok, particularly as you get to higher levels, but you are still stuck using either an agile rapier, or a scimitar with dervish dance. Those are your choices.
In this case I saw a flip side of what happens when the swashbuckler roles badly. In my previous two playtests, (at higher levels mind you) crits were very commont, so panache didnt seem as limited. At higher levels there was also more room for feats, and those characters had extra grit as well as higher charisma bonuses from items. 4 more panache makes a heck of a difference.
But I just feel like its missing something. Right now it feels like a pure alternate class of the gunslinger, and not a hybrid class. Part of the problem is the 'feel' of the fighter is really limited and the gunslinger is already very similar in abilities to the fighter.
Based on what I saw, I think the swashbuckler needs a low level reasource. I think derring do should be broken out into a separate resource that is slightly more abundant and not reliant on panache. Swashbucklers should be jumping around and doing all sorts of daring things often, and not once or twice a session. Either that or there needs to be a feat achievable at low levels (so not signature deed) that allows derring do to not cost a panache point. I also think either opportune parry needs to not cost panache, or at the very least it should be able to activated after you know you've been 'hit'.
Thanks, Kolo.
I think you missed where Derring-Do says that it cannot be reduced to cost less than 1 Panache (such as with Signature Deed). I don't see the same language on Parry or Riposte, so theoretically, one of them could be reduced to requiring 0 Panache, but that isn't until level 11, AND it feels like yet another feat tax on the class just to perform at about the level you'd expect it to.
Agreed with the rest of your comments.