Hello. This is my first post and first topic here, so if I inadvertently cross any minor lines tell me. Or major lines, but I think I'd notice if I slaughtered a fellow poster in the middle of the OP.
Anyway.
I am very new to Pathfinder, so I probably shouldn't be thinking up really weird class and race combinations. If it makes you guys feel any better my first and so far only character is just a Human Druid, so I haven't put anything weird out on to the table top yet. However, I like going through and making new classes because A) it's fun and B) I think it helps me understand the rules better.
I was looking through the ARG (I like weird races; they're flavorful and unique) and I was interested in the Sylph. +5 movement? Not huge, but kind of cool. Add that with their Wings of Flight feat, though, and they have 35 good fly speed, and add a Barbarian or Monk's movement bonus to it and suddenly that's pretty awesome. I've been looking into doing that, so here's what I've come up with.
We're assuming level 10 starting level. I haven't blocked out ability scores yet (my group rolls), but when I ask for help let's pretend I'm using a 20 point system (we're pretty lenient on the dice rolling).
I want this character to be unarmored for flavor and practicality purposes.
Sylph - Racial Traits
Whispering Wind instead of Feather Fall (ends up better since I'll be able to fly), Breeze Kissed (best air affinity replacement, nice flavor), and Like the Wind (I want to be blazing fast). That should cover everything.
My character must take Airy Step and Wings of Flight.
Weapon Adept Monk - 6 levels
This gets me... (important stuff only)
- +2 AC and CMD
- Flurry of Blows (not sure what my BAB would be for it, though)
- 3 monk bonus feats. I don't know what my 1st and 2nd level feats will be, but my 6th level feat will be Mobility (for Duelist).
Which is pretty good for 6 levels, plus a get a whole lot of other flavor / useful but not specially so for this build stuff.
Fighter - 2 levels (any particular fighter archetype I should use?)
- Weapon proficiency (which I probably won't use...)
- 2 bonus feats spent on Dodge and Weapon Finesse.
So, where do I go from there? I think my level dipping so far is pretty good and gets me what I need without too much hassle. This is what I need help on...
What weapons should I be using? Probably a light martial weapon that a monk can use Flurry of Blows with. Flurry of Blows won't be my go-to, but I shouldn't limit myself if I don't have to. My group will be okay with my monk automatically being proficient with any weapon with the "monk" property. Light martial weapon is obvious- it should be used with Weapon Finesse.
And...
What should my build look like? Again, assuming a 20 point system here, I'm looking at...
STR - 7
DEX - 17 (+2)
CON - 16 (-2)
INT - 12 (+2)
WIS - 10
CHA - 7
I should be able to get away with STR as a dump stat, right? CHA should be fine, though.
And, the big question: Is this actually a good build? I really have no clue, and no experience to gauge it by. I just want lots of feedback. Thanks guys!
Monk uses wisdom for an AC bonus, Duelist uses intelligence for the same. You haven't invested in either ability score. With your strength of 7, you are imposing -2 to every damage roll you make, which is a shame for a melee warrior. HP are great, but I would back off on the constitution. Looks like you bought an 18, and its left you with too few points to spend elsewhere. I would also choose between fighter and monk. One or the other. They both get bonus feats, and with either one you will have enough to enter the prestige class on time. The alternative is to not go for duelist.
If you are new to the game, my best advice is for you to be a single classes character. Try it out before you go wild.
If I understand correctly though, Weapon Finesse with the proper weapon replaces the strength score with a dexterity score. Since I would be using a light martial weapon, and starting at level 10 and therefore not having to worry about a time before Weapon Finesse, would that not make strength fairly irrelevant?
I'd also like to point out that my ability scores were written ambiguously. They are (after the racial bonuses, which I didn't make very clear)...
STR - 7
DEX - 19
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 10
CHA - 7
If I understand correctly though, Weapon Finesse with the proper weapon replaces the strength score with a dexterity score. Since I would be using a light martial weapon, and starting at level 10 and therefore not having to worry about a time before Weapon Finesse, would that not make strength fairly irrelevant?
I'd also like to point out that my ability scores were written ambiguously. They are (after the racial bonuses, which I didn't make very clear)...
STR - 7
DEX - 19
CON - 14
INT - 14
WIS - 10
CHA - 7
Weapon Finesse replaces strenght with dexterity on "to hit" rolls, "damage" rolls are still based on strenght.
Finesse only replaces Str for attack rolls (to hit). Damage rolls will still be determined by Strength and 7 will give you a penalty. Also, it will significantly lower your carrying capacity. You don't need Dex all the way up to 19 right to start. Keep in mind that most major stat bonuses come from magic items. I'd say the following might be a better array:
Str 12
Dex 15(17)
Con 14(12)
Int 13(15)
Wis 15
Cha 7
You don't need Int that high right off the bat because it won't significantly help you until you enter Duelist. Putting it at 13 rather than 14 saves you 2 points. Then, you put your lvl 8 stat boost into Int to round it out just in time to benefit from Duelist and the racial boost is gravy. 15 Dex is plenty, especially considering you also have a racial boost for this. Con needs a significant bump considering you have a racial penalty to it so you want to net at least +1 HP per level from it so it goes to 14 (dropped to 12 by racial). Wisdom is a significant contributor to your AC right out the door from Monk so that starts high. Lastly, 2 dinky Strength points gives you a little benefit on your attacks. Ditch the fighter levels and just stick to Monk; you'll be lvl 8 Monk which gets you a second attack from Flurry and then enter Duelist at lvl 9 which is the same level you'd get it if you took the 2 levels of Fighter; but now you have one extra attack on your Flurry. If you want, you can take Snake style and your Unarmed Strikes can become piercing weapons which qualifies them for Duelist abilities. You'll probably want Monastic legacy to keep upping your Unarmed Strike damage if you do decide to focus on that. Regarding Flurry, normally Monk is a mid-BAB class so you get 3 BAB every 4 levels. At lvl 8, for example, you have 6 BAB which affects all other things like fulfilling feat and PrC prereqs, making attacks, avoiding bluffs, etc. But when you use Flurry of Blows, treat the BAB from your Monk levels as if you were a full-BAB class like Fighter; instead of 6 BAB from 8 Monk levels, you use 8 BAB instead. Here's the level progression I'd go for:
Spoiler:
1) Flowing Monk 1, BAB +0, Weapon Finesse (Monk), Toughness (lvl 1)
2) Monk 2, BAB +1, Improved Trip (Monk)
3) Monk 3, BAB +2, Weapon Focus (Unarmed)
4) Monk 4, BAB +3, +1 Dex
5) Monk 5, BAB +3, Dodge (lvl 5)
6) Monk 6, BAB +4, Mobility (Monk)
7) Monk 7, BAB +5, Snake Style (lvl 7)
8) Monk 8, BAB +6, +1 Int
9) Duelist 1, BAB +7 Snake Sidewind (lvl 9)
10) Duelist 2, BAB +8
11) Duelist 3, BAB +9, Monastic Legacy (lvl 11)
12) Duelist 4, BAB +10, +1 Wis
13) Duelist 5, BAB +11, Snake Fang (lvl 13)
14) Duelist 6, BAB +12
15) Duelist 7, BAB +13, Dragon Style (lvl 15)
16) Duelist 8, BAB +14, +1 Dex
17) Duelist 9, BAB +15, Combat Style Master (17)
18) Duelist 10, BAB +16
You'll want to pick up an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists which will allow you to add your Dex bonus to Unarmed Strike damage, but until then, you'll be more of a skirmisher with high defense. Trip those you can; weapon finesse lets you use Dex on Trips as well as Disarms and Sunders, but you don't have Improved for those maneuvers. Be sure to get some magic items to boost the appropriate stats. At lvl 8, your Flurry will give you 4 attacks total and at lvl 13, you'll get a 5th attack. Dragon Style leads into Combat Style Master which gives 2 benefits; you get to start combat already in a style and you can change styles as a free action. This means you can automatically start in Snake Style and needn't spend any action to get into it and you have an additional useful style to use that gives some significant benefits (ie. can ignore difficult terrain for charge/run/overrun, and get bonuses vs some status effects). You'll max out Duelist by lvl 18 so lvls 19 and 20 are free for whatever other class you want to go into. I'd suggest something front-loaded if you don't want to continue with Monk.
I don't have the time right now to go through and do a through look at your character but I've just spent the last week doing a Quickling (Fey) Monk/Fighter/Duelist NPC with Advanced Template for the Kingmaker game I'm running. So I will do a quick run through what I did and why which might help you see possibilities or even decide you want to try it. :-).
This was designed as a NPC but by the time I finished it I suspected it would be a lot of fun to play as a PC.
Quickling (small Fey 2' 6" tall) CR3 (this equals 3 Character levels and gives you a bonus Class level between your 2nd and 3rd Class level as per Bestiary pg 313 Appendix 4 or http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races)
Small gives +1 AC, +1 Att
4d6 HD, BAB +2
Race stat mods - Str -2, Dex +14, Con +2, Int +4, Wis +4, Cha +4
Special Abilities - Blur, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, +1 NAC, 1d6 sneak attack, 120' move (in game this is more a way to get in trouble than anything else, but damn it's fun making the Road Runner look slow. :-) ). + a VERY limited form of Natural Invisibility - A quickling is invisible when motionless. It loses this invisibility and remains visible for 1 round in any round in which it takes an action other than a free action.
Feats for 1st + 3rd HD Dodge, Weapon Finess.
Race Bonus Feats - Mobility, Spring Attack,
Vunerable to Slow spell.
Fighter/Monk levels order aren't especially important other than making sure you have the prereqs for feats.
Fighter - Freehand Archtype 3 Levels
+3 BAB
Monk - Weapon Adept or Master of many Styles/Monk of Sacred Mountain 2 Levels. Weapon Adept is only worth it if your GM allows you to use Perfect Weapon feat with the exotic monk weapons Bich'hwa or Emi Piercer. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/eastern-weapons
+1 BAB
Weapon Master - Take Dodge and Deflect Missile as Bonus Feat. When you get Dodge retrain Dodge from your !st HD as Quickling as Combat Expertise. When you get Deflect Missiles as Bonus Feat from Duelist retrain your monk Deflect Arrows for another on the list.
Master of Many Styles take Crane Style and Crane Wing as your bonus feats for Level 1 and 2.
Duelist - Next 10 levels
Get the Advanced Template - http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/advanced-creatu re-cr-1
This will cost you a Class level but sell your PC's soul if necessary to get it.
Gives +2 NAC and +4 to every stat. As a Monk this gives you a total of +6 AC and +2 attack for the loss of a HD, skill points and slowing class development by 1 level.
Assuming you are using points build Get your Str to 0, then spread your points fairly evenly between Dex, Int, Wis and Charisma (Bluff is a Charisma Skill and this build is about Feinting which uses Bluff).
Armour. You don't wear armour. Offer your 1st born to the party Arcane caster to cast Mage armour on you as a standard buff and your 2nd born child to the Druid for Bark Skin.
Additional feats to take.
Exotic Weapon Proficieny - Bich'hwa or Emi Piercer
This if your GM allows you to use them with Perfect Strike so you can Flurry of Blows with them. Otherwise use a Rapier and save a feat.
Combat Expertise and Blind Fight - Prereq feats
Moonlight Stalker - +2 Attack and Damage against enemies your concealment works on, and a prereq for what you really want. :-)
Moonlight Stalker Feint - Make a Feint as a swift action once a round against an enemy your concealment works on.
Improved Feint - Prereq
Feint Greater - When you successfully Feint your target loses their Dex and Dodge AC bonus's until the start of your next turn. This means Sneak Attack works on them as well as their AC might drop. Your party will love you. Also with multiple attacks the swift Feint from Moonlight Stalker Feint allows all your attacks to be against a enemy with no Dex or Dodge bonus and you get Sneak Attack on every hit.
Crane Style - Prereq
Crane Wing - Once a turn if you are in Crane Style and Defensively Fighting you can deflect a successful melee attack.
Important you read the rules on Feint.
Max out your ranks in Bluff and by a Ring of Bluff - +5 Competence bonus to Bluff, when you can afford it. And then upgrade it to a Improved version when you have the money.
This character won;t do a lot of damage until it starts getting the Duelist Damage bonus but it will keep chipping away and a good AC with Crane Wing will keep you alive.
Okay, so I definitely screwed up on Weapon Finesse, so strength definitely needs to go back. This looks good (courtesy of Kazaan)...
Str 12
Dex 15 (17) +1
Con 14 (12)
Int 13 (15) +1
Wis 15
Cha 7
Those +1's are my ability score increases for being level 10.
I guess the two level dip into fighter is good for feats, but otherwise unrecommended. Assuming I stick with Monk, I'd actually want to duel over after level 9 so I'd get the movement increase, so at level 10 I'd be a Monk 9/Duelist 1.
The feat progressions you guys recommended won't work, though. I have to take Airy Step and Wings of Flight for what I want to do with my character. Right now my feat progression is looking something like this... (not necessarily in this order).
I think using unarmed strikes as a duelist would be too feat intensive to work after the two feats spent on flight, but I'm not opposed to the idea. I still think a light monk weapon would be best, but I'm open to other thoughts.
Scimitar with dervish dance is probably the best option. Combine it with one lvl dip in MoMS monk or teh maneuver master monk for crane style /crane wing.
Basic rules of Prestige classes is if you are going to do them you really need to do them.
Get the prereqs as efficiently as practical and get into them.
Monk dip is good because it has good quantity of bonus feats at start, but only a dip. 2 Levels max. More than that and you are playing a monk, not a duelist.
Freehand Fighter archtype because it melds with Duelist.
Get an idea how your damage output and AC tracks as you advance. Workout if there are going to be flat areas before class abilities kick in and decide whether you can handle them.
Check how your saves progress. If they have weaknesses work out how to cover for them in magic items, tactics or support from the other PCs.
Important point. Your PC isn't in isolation. Check what your other players are doing and try and have their strengths fill in your weaknesses and visa versa. Which is why you need to workout where those weaknesses are.
