So, in our last game and the DM began to laugh, and afterwards he explained "wow, these creatures are broken. If I have them act intelligently, you all die."
We were then approached by white rabbits.
First there was only one.
It nibbled on someone's cloak.
Then the dwarven rogue drank Dwarven Fire Ale and chopped its head off.
Then
.
.
.
there were a lot of them, like 15 of them all surrounding the party! We rolled initiative! The rabbits went last. I looked outside my tent and saw a slaughter that has never been seen since the civil war after Aroden died. Rabbit heads soaring through the air with still confused expressions, hell hounds summoned from the very depths of the lower planes rending rabbit head from body and burning white fur from muscle and flesh!
Then, as the rabbits died the ring of wood and tender and rabbit corpses we built around our camp caught fire.
In the trees above we saw
.
.
.
HARPIES!
They began to sing and six of the seven party members were captivated. If it wasn't for Baron Nimish Baron-baron all would have been lost as his ARMY OF HELL HOUNDS BURNED THEM ALL.
So, after the smell of burning rabbits, burning rabbit turds that were released in fear of fire breathing dogs, and burning women who never bathed, and burning harpy turds rent from intestines by aforementioned hounds of fire-breathing we decided to travel a couple hundred feet and remake our camp.
So, with the captivating song not having a specific duration like most status effects I just have to ask: why the hell would you ever use harpies? They are essentially a crappy version of an enchanter, but it can fly, use a supernatural ability that prevents prey from taking any actions against the harpies allies, and said supernatural ability has no pre-stated limit to how many rounds it can last at max.
So all this translates to me never intending to use it ever, and, if I am DMing a campaign where they show up, swapping them out for something else even if it doesn't make sense. Possibly rebuilding them using a Strix and making NPCs/heroic NPCs with them.
Of course there is the simple fact that by level 3 a cleric will have access to Silence, which means that if he has it memorized--which I assume he might if the area has harpies--and succeeds his will save--which there is a good chance of--then he could just cast silence on the party, end the compulsion effects, and then kill the harpies.
The thing is that the above is strangely specific, as in a it must happen this way, boom-boom-boom, or everyone potentially dies.
I suppose this is a reason to have a deaf oracle in the party if you are walking around in harpy territory.
While this is true if you are not playing elves, and if the bard gets captivated there can be a problem.
In our case we fought 3 harpies with a mixed group whose APL was around 4.
My point is thus:
If the party all gets bad rolls the party is dead if the harpy has at least 1 ally because the harpy can sing essentially forever until it passes out from exhaustion.
It is sort of like how bad traps work: Make 1 save, if you fail you suffer some consequence and move on.
Lets take the generic fighter: At level 18 he will get the bonus to will saves to have a 10% chance to defeat a harpy's compulsion if he has a wisdom of 10. Sure, he'll most likely have a cape of resistances to boost that up from +6 to +11, but that is the point I am trying to make here.
What if, say, I added a bunch of harpies to an encounter, say CR17s worth of harpies, and in this epic CR 21 encounter with the army of harpies, and 3 other CR 17 monsters/encounters: The members of the party who lack a cape of resistance and good will saves would be screwed.
It is the lack of a time-limit, X number of rounds, that is the problem I take from it. It makes me think that it is just leftovers from 3.5.
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Why is no one questioning the rabbits? WTF is up with that? lol
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I have used them at low levels but usually when I gave the party plenty of warning. Perhaps tales related by the experienced woodsman of the siren of the woods or a direct warning by a local sage that a dangerous harpy stalks the mountain nearby.
Thus the players prepare properly. They keep protection from evil ready which so many classes can cast. If they do it right when they sight the harpy then several characters will have absolute protection against the charm effects.
if the group feels like gambling they can wait to see who fails the save and then cast P from E to get the second save at +2.
A knowledge check could be prompted by the DM so that wizards or other classes who might have Know(nature) could get some hints of their powers.
Long story short is that a group at least one full caster should have a very useful spell to deal with the song both before or after it takes effect.
So, with the captivating song not having a specific duration like most status effects I just have to ask: why the hell would you ever use harpies? They are essentially a crappy version of an enchanter, but it can fly, use a supernatural ability that prevents prey from taking any actions against the harpies allies, and said supernatural ability has no pre-stated limit to how many rounds it can last at max.
This effect continues for as long as the harpy sings and for 1 round thereafter.
The supernatural ability takes a standard action each round, so that Harpy is not attacking in the same round she sings. The duration is stated above: rounds singing plus one.
Captivated creatures can take no actions other than to defend themselves.
You can still defend against anything that attacks you.
If the path leads them into a dangerous area such as through fire or off a cliff, that creature receives a second saving throw to end the effect before moving into peril.
It is possible to get additional saves.
While you can be entranced by several harpies, they are not hurting you while they all sing. As soon as one stops singing, someone might get released, and they know that. So they will try to get is a good position if they can, but it is by no means a guaranteed TPK. With an Int of 7, they might well have lousy tactics, and all start singing rather than see if more than one needs to sing before adding another voice.
/cevah
This effect continues for as long as the harpy sings and for 1 round thereafter.The supernatural ability takes a standard action each round, so that Harpy is not attacking in the same round she sings. The duration is stated above: rounds singing plus one.
What I mean is similar to this: Bardic Performance
A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired. He can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier. At each level after 1st a bard can use bardic performance for 2 additional rounds per day. Each round, the bard can produce any one of the types of bardic performance that he has mastered, as indicated by his level.
There is a maximum number of rounds, not an ambiguous "until she stops singing, and 1 round after."
Captivated creatures can take no actions other than to defend themselves.You can still defend against anything that attacks you.
Yes, but being unable to fight back in anyway all it takes is time. Statistically speaking 1 in ever 20 attack rolls will be a 20, hence meaning that if everyone is captivated that it is only a matter of time if the harpy has even a single ally. It might take a few hours, but it will happen.
If the path leads them into a dangerous area such as through fire or off a cliff, that creature receives a second saving throw to end the effect before moving into peril.It is possible to get additional saves.
If this included if the harpy's allies were attacking you in its additional will saves then I'd give it less flack, since at that point it would just be crowd control. That is not the case, and that is where I take issue.
While you can be entranced by several harpies, they are not hurting you while they all sing. As soon as one stops singing, someone might get released, and they know that. So they will try to get is a good position if they can, but it is by no means a guaranteed TPK. With an Int of 7, they might well have lousy tactics, and all start singing rather than see if more than one needs to sing before adding another voice.
Yet if one starts singing and captivates the majority, then the other two can just club the non-captivated to death with resistance, and then club the others to death without any danger.
/cevah
/taku ooka nin =P
I agree harpies are nasty. I don't like running Pathfinder Society scenarios with them because even I can do some damage with them.
However, perhaps you can play the harpies as if they were non-cooperative, selfish predators. Each one trying to get the kill before the others. This would prevent them from using the captivate and gang-up tactic. Now each time they stop singing in order to attack, their prey will get a new saving throw when they start singing again.
Think of the Skeksis from "The Dark Crystal"; they're intelligent but still very competitive when it comes to who gets to kill the gelfling.