| koboldfodder |
So in the adventure I'm running my players are most of the way through assaulting the ruins of a small castle that some devils and their cult worshippers have set up near a small town. The PC's just used up a some resources and one of their number was dropped to zero defeating a mid level boss and henchman. After we stopped game some of the players talked about falling back to the town to rest and re-equip to deal with the formidable enemy that still likely lies within.
So my question is, the devil leaders aren't stupid, so how should they react? Obviously sitting and waiting would be a stupid idea. Would they summon more help and assault the town, ambush them on thier return trip, leave and find somewhere else to setup?
The party consists of five players and a npc. Totalling two rogue's, a cleric, a ranger, a fighter and a sorcerer. The enemy's left to fight them are two erinyes, a bearded devil, and a few peon cultists and cleric cultist.
Any advice would be awesome. Thanks.
| koboldfodder |
The devils are the scouts/spearhead of a bid by higher ranking devils to gain a foot hold on the material plane for conquest, the cultists just being human lackeys and expendable conscripts for thier ultimate goals. Their plan was to attack and capture the town nearby as a forward operating base.
Being highly intelligent I doubt they would risk the operation for the sake of ruins that can be abandoned and start elsewhere. But that leaves the question, do they just abandon the complex and the adventurers that destroyed their plan and start anew elsewhere? Or would they try anything to exact revenge? And how would they go about this?
| Clectabled |
While I think you have the right idea, in terms of what the bad guys would do.
If the players are 'fledgling' players, you might be better off just let them go back and find the bad guys in the process of making a move, or something along those lines.
While the demons are smart they are also arrogant. Have them send a small strike force attack the players while they sleep, enough to disrupt the rest, but not enough to present a really tough fight.
Have a few friendly NPC's get killed off and ensure other townies place the blame on the PC's for bringing the destruction to town.
Nothing will motivate the players to action more than killing off the kid that takes care of the horses... Hell for that matter, kill the horses too. That will get them back to the dungeon pronto.
| koboldfodder |
One of the players has a lot of experience gaming, the others are rather new. And I like the idea of attacking them but the players have killed off most of the mooks that were prepping for the attack on the town and the players are likely to rest in town. so to do more than feed a few low level guards to a grinder that will likely do nothing, the devils will have to attack themselves, and they could do a lot of damage to the town but with a walled town, prepped defenders (thanks to players warning town of the dangers, equiping and improving the defenses) and even unrested pc's it will be certain suicide.
I suppose I could have the devils teleport and attack the pc's on terrain in their favor when the pc's start to fall back to the town.
| HowFortuitous |
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It seems to me that demons would see the PCs retreating as a sign that it was time to hit while the iron is still hot. The PCs are hurt, if they could have sent an army they would have, but now that the PCs probably have proof of a bigger problem, they would get some help. Time to make a move before an actual army shows up. The is still in chaos from the news. Sure, guard may have been doubled but it's unlikely that proper defenses have been erected yet.
Plus, demons can summon up some more fodder. The guard house suddenly is set on fire, taking out half the defensive forces in the town, at the same time the opposite wall is attacked by stealthy demons, only thing that stops that from being the end of things is a single guard who managed to ring the bell before he had his insides become outsides (this rewards the player who had the foresight to prepare for an attack on the town-it's going down but the increased guard let them warn the town even if they couldn't handle the horde). Normally towns people are running, buildings are on fire, the PCs have to find a way to stop it. Only then can they head back to the dungeon and have the boss fight with the big bad who is simply making preparations to move into a town he is quite confident is now his.
| Terquem |
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I would advise you to stop and take a minute to evaluate what you mean by "obviously that would be stupid".
‘Cause there's a huge hole in that logic.
See, we often do this, as game masters, we look at bad guys and tell ourselves, okay, this bad guy is smart, so he would not make stupid decisions. But, this is not letting yourself be as creative as you can be. Often, very intelligent people make stupid decisions, and make stupid mistakes. How do we know that they are stupid mistakes, only because the “plan” an intelligent person made, didn’t work out they way they thought it would.
So give yourself the freedom to imagine what “If”. What if that really smart guy in charge of the bad guys believes that they have chased away those heroes for good, and knows they won’t be back. What if that really smart bad guy is obsessed with making improvements in the defenses that others in his group don’t agree are the weak spots (many generals in history are guilty of this kind of arrogance). What if the really smart bad guy is distracted by an emotional reaction to the situation (wracked with guilt, angry at subordinates, developing an “attraction” to one of the heroes, and on and on. Many things that would seem to be “stupid” to the player characters might make interesting story ideas once the players learn the rest of the story.
In essence give yourself permission to have your bad guys make mistakes, because in the long term, as the game is played out, you will probably find that even the best plans you think you’ve made for your bad guys, turn out to be bad ideas after all.
| Mark Hoover |
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These devils can teleport? Ok, here's what I see happening if it were my game:
...and you return to the inn to rest. Bidding the barkeep good night you pile into your shared room. You lock the door, set up your watch and defenses, and settle into restless slumber. As the witching hour approaches there is a soft "bamf" and the smell of brimstone. You (guy on watch) are suddenly aware of a presence in the room with you.
"Truce heroes...truce. You win." the devil's soft voice purrs. The only thing it bears is a scroll in one hand, a pen in the other. "I didn't come for a fight, I came to deal" (in case anyone gets itchy trigger fingers) "Uh uh uh... I'm here to parlay but if you'd like a battle, perhaps my ladies could serve to dissuade you. They have their bows trained on the barkeep in the town square right now. You might end one, but not both before their work is done. And then there'll be more of us, poring in from the Hells, to burn this place to ash."
The devil sets down the scroll and pen, then brushes off his shoulder. "Or, we could make a deal. You caught us off guard and did some real damage mortals; I respect that. This is the ONLY reason you are all still breathing. However I would offer you more than just your lives in this bargain. You would receive such power as you have never dreamed of. All I would require in return would be a few, minor... CONCESSIONS..." the last word dripping from its bearded mouth and slithering into your ears.
In GM's terms, the bearded devil teleports into the party's room after positioning his last, key troops around the town to maximize chaos and destruction. He then visits the party and offers whatever you feel is appropriate to make them stop attacking his position. Of course he knows full well that such heroes rarely say yes, so he fully intends to give the signal, dive out the window and begin the devastation of the town. Then he sounds the retreat and the outsider troops return to the ruins while their few mortal servants die for the cause.
Finally, while the party is distracted by burning buildings, mooks and general chaos, the devils begin summoning reinforcements and turtling. They call up ever last reserve they can get their hands on so that, when the PCs return, they've got enough firepower to repel them. Oh, and one more thing.
When the bearded devil is close enough, have him read the minds of the players, find out if they care about the barkeep, or the NPC, or someone in town. Then when he's leaving, have him collect that person for leverage. When the heroes bust down the devils' defenses a second time and fight their way to the bearded one, they find this mortal they care about in peril. The devil will happily spare this person if the heroes will yield. Its a classic gambit and if your players are good roleplayers this will be a very satisfying moment for everyone in time.
| Clectabled |
I would advise you to stop and take a minute to evaluate what you mean by "obviously that would be stupid".
‘Cause there's a huge hole in that logic.
See, we often do this, as game masters, we look at bad guys and tell ourselves, okay, this bad guy is smart, so he would not make stupid decisions. But, this is not letting yourself be as creative as you can be. Often, very intelligent people make stupid decisions, and make stupid mistakes. How do we know that they are stupid mistakes, only because the “plan” an intelligent person made, didn’t work out they way they thought it would.
Also realize that being smart and having common sense are two different things, and rarely does someone have both. The common sense thing may be to counter attack, but the smart demon might think about fortifying. (Or the other way around?)
You might not have to worry about them porting in a bunch of new Devils ( after all the Devil in charge just let a whole lot of damage happen.. Does he REALLY want his boss to know what just happened without a nice little row of PC heads on platters to compensate for the setback?
| koboldfodder |
How well have they scouted the town? Is there a suitable new base closer to or even in the town? What are they expecting as reinforcements and on what time scale? Is there a potential new source for mooks?
They know the town in and out, they keep a constant watch over the town with invisible imps, and several of the cultists they had as mooks were taken from this town one way or another. The PC's, having realized they were dealing with actual devils, immediately sent out a call for help to a prominent npc in the capital city of the region. During the fighting with the devils mooks the npc teleported in a few npc's and some soldiers to help secure the town and investigate what was going on. As for a new source for mooks, that's a good question. after viewing the responses and help on this thread I'm realizing I need to work out background and support for this one shot adventure I made.
oops, like I said fledgling dm. I'm going to start from the top and work my way down the chain for this operation. I'm thinking that the head of this operation will be a middle ranked devil of some sort, working on a operation for a pit fiend to try and secure power, territory and more souls I guess. so this wont be a make it or break it operation, but ultimately they will both want it to succeed, both for the gaining of territory plunder and power, but to keep from ruining their reputation by having a operation ruined by some "mere mortals".
And I agree with HowFortuitous about them thinking they need to strike back and hearing the advice, I do believe I'm going to have more mooks and fodder attack the town, after I figure out how many and of what to attack with.
Terquem, I agree and you are correct, and I tend to try to leave chaos theory and personal issues some play with the bad guys. With this particular enemy though I want this to be a difficult fight and besides remaining thematically appropriate I want them making decisions that make sence and work the best for them, cause with this group of PC's making a dumb mistake Is a great way to get a encounter chewed up like it was much lower cr's.
Mark Hoover , that is a excellent Idea, I have just the set of npc,s to use for manipulation in these regards and it could work out beautifully, and I will look into implementing a scenario like that into this game.
These have been some great ideas. thanks for the help guys and giving me a place to flesh out ideas.
| Peet |
Beings with teleportation ability might simply bug out and look for a new hidden base. If they did it would turn the next set of encounters into a mystery, and the players have to figure out where the bad guys have gone.
On the other hand, if they are running out of mooks, teleportation lets them go elsewhere for reinforcements (if the party can go back to "regroup" so can the bad guys). If they are planning to "dig in" then the party may return to find that many of the people they have killed have been replaced, and the new ones are expecting trouble.
Likewise having the bad guys call in reinforcements also means that their attack on the town might be able to go ahead as planned. A bit rushed, perhaps, but nevertheless still a serious problem.
Peet