Ring of Spell Knowledge mentions 'written' spells. Can a sorcerer use a spellbook to teach the ring? Can a sorcerer write his own spellbook?
A ring of spell knowledge is only a storage space; the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring.
For your first question, yes. In fact, that's one of the only two practical ways to teach the ring, the other being a scroll.
For your second question, as far as I can tell, no, he cannot. Spellbooks are a class feature of wizards and magi. The ring of spell knowledge does not allow him to emulate that class feature.
That seems really strong. Isnt this stealing the wizard's versatility?
You can teach the ring a spell by:
Having a friend or NPC cast the spell on the ring (any spell).
Walking into an area where that spell is in effect (any AE duration spell).
Having a spell cast on you (any spell).
Touching someone who has that spell active on them (duration buffs or debuffs).
Reading a spell from a scroll or spellbook (any spell).
So that last one is what you're asking about. I'm personally not sure a sorcerer can even read a spellbook. As far as I can tell, every section and even every paragraph in the Core Rulebook that gives rules for reading, understanding, deciphering, learning, copying, or writing spells into a "spellbook" also uses the word "wizard". The only partially-applicable exception is the section on "Arcane Magical Writings" that doesn't specify "wizard" but is also not limiting the discussion only to spellbooks but also includes scrolls as well.
So, since all the rules involving spellbooks limit themselves to wizards (which doesn't include sorcerers), then I'm inclined to say that a sorcerer cannot even learn a spell or read a spell or decipher a spell from a spellbook - their "innate" magic just doesn't work that way.
a spellbook is definitely a written version of a spell, it's simply a version without the innate power of a scroll.
Yes, they can use a spellbook on the ring. No, they can't make their own spellbook...TRANSCRIBING spells into a spellbook is a wizard feature. Understanding what the spell is? That's just spellcraft.
==Aelryinth
That seems really strong. Isnt this stealing the wizard's versatility?
It costs a wizard spell lvl(squared)x10gp to permanently add a spell to their book.
It would costs the sorcerer spell lvl(squared)x1500gp to have the ability to have (1) spell added to their list of spells known.
While taking up a ring slot and limited to the matching level or lower which maxes out at 4.
So no, I don't think it is unbalancing.
You can teach the ring a spell by:
Having a friend or NPC cast the spell on the ring (any spell).
Walking into an area where that spell is in effect (any AE duration spell).
Having a spell cast on you (any spell).
Touching someone who has that spell active on them (duration buffs or debuffs).
Reading a spell from a scroll or spellbook (any spell).So that last one is what you're asking about. I'm personally not sure a sorcerer can even read a spellbook. As far as I can tell, every section and even every paragraph in the Core Rulebook that gives rules for reading, understanding, deciphering, learning, copying, or writing spells into a "spellbook" also uses the word "wizard". The only partially-applicable exception is the section on "Arcane Magical Writings" that doesn't specify "wizard" but is also not limiting the discussion only to spellbooks but also includes scrolls as well.
So, since all the rules involving spellbooks limit themselves to wizards (which doesn't include sorcerers), then I'm inclined to say that a sorcerer cannot even learn a spell or read a spell or decipher a spell from a spellbook - their "innate" magic just doesn't work that way.
None of the ways mentioned above will teach the ring.
the wearer must still encounter a written, active, or cast version of the spell and succeed at a DC 20 Spellcraft check to teach the spell to the ring.
It takes a standard action to teach the ring. You must "encounter" and make a spellcraft check. I could see readying an action to make a spellcraft check while another casts a spell.
Written forms include: Scroll, Spellbook, Book of Formulas (Alchemist), Runes, possibly Tattoos, Glyphs, and anything else you can think of that is "written". You are not limited to arcane sources either. There is debate over getting a divine only spell, but it is clear that a divine spell that is also on some arcane list can be added.
/cevah
|
There is debate over getting a divine only spell, but it is clear that a divine spell that is also on some arcane list can be added.
No. a written spell is normally either divine or arcane, and you will teach the spell as a spell of the same kind.
Only spells in not written magic items (like wands) lose that difference.You can't take a divine scroll of cure light wound and learn the spell as a arcane version of the spell.
There is debate over getting a divine only spell, but it is clear that a divine spell that is also on some arcane list can be added.No. a written spell is normally either divine or arcane, and you will teach the spell as a spell of the same kind.
Only spells in not written magic items (like wands) lose that difference.
You can't take a divine scroll of cure light wound and learn the spell as a arcane version of the spell.
The item description does not say "arcane writing", but "writing". Also, how many randomly encountered scrolls (i.e. treasure drop) fail to mention if they are arcane or divine?
Scrolls are called out as being "arcane" or "divine", but there are other forms of writing than Scrolls. From previous editions, I recall there being monoliths with strange runes that held the secrets to a spell or spells. I recall a thing called a Prayerbook, which was used by the Archivist class as a spellbook. Rune Circles were magic writings also. They may yet make an appearance in PF.
/cevah
That seems really strong. Isnt this stealing the wizard's versatility?It costs a wizard spell lvl(squared)x10gp to permanently add a spell to their book.
It would costs the sorcerer spell lvl(squared)x1500gp to have the ability to have (1) spell added to their list of spells known.
While taking up a ring slot and limited to the matching level or lower which maxes out at 4.So no, I don't think it is unbalancing.
that's not quite it. The sorcerer can change the spell in the ring. So by buying a spellbook, and a ring the sorcerer gains access to *all* utility spells of a given level for a partly level squared x 1500gp.
The page is fixed, though. The ring and spellbook(s) method gives you all of those spells at a few seconds' notice if your Spellcraft is any good. There's no passage stating that you can't retry, so for out-of-combat situations you can just take 20 and have the spell in a couple of minutes.
The main drawback is that you have to actually have the spellbook. You can't write a spellbook nor copy spells from another one to your own spellbook the way a wizard can. Most wizards won't part with a spellbook even if they would normally let you copy from theirs. So you'd end up having to buy a lot of scrolls, and that's not cheap.
You can teach the ring a spell by:
Having a friend or NPC cast the spell on the ring (any spell).
Walking into an area where that spell is in effect (any AE duration spell).
Having a spell cast on you (any spell).
Touching someone who has that spell active on them (duration buffs or debuffs).
Reading a spell from a scroll or spellbook (any spell).So that last one is what you're asking about. I'm personally not sure a sorcerer can even read a spellbook. As far as I can tell, every section and even every paragraph in the Core Rulebook that gives rules for reading, understanding, deciphering, learning, copying, or writing spells into a "spellbook" also uses the word "wizard". The only partially-applicable exception is the section on "Arcane Magical Writings" that doesn't specify "wizard" but is also not limiting the discussion only to spellbooks but also includes scrolls as well.
So, since all the rules involving spellbooks limit themselves to wizards (which doesn't include sorcerers), then I'm inclined to say that a sorcerer cannot even learn a spell or read a spell or decipher a spell from a spellbook - their "innate" magic just doesn't work that way.
None of the ways mentioned above will teach the ring.
Actually all those forms work.
having the spell cast on the ring is a cast version of the spell. So is having it cast on you.Walking into the area of a AE spell with duration is encountering an active spell.
"Touching" isn't required, just encountering someone with the active spell on them is enough.
The only way I can see encountering a spell and it not working is if you see a spell brought into being by a magic item, like a wand or wonderous item. Since you don't see the spell being cast, it's just a charge going off, you could make a case it wouldn't work then.
But, that would be splitting hairs. Most people do 'cast spells from wands', at least in language.
==Aelryinth
You can teach the ring a spell by:
Having a friend or NPC cast the spell on the ring (any spell).
Walking into an area where that spell is in effect (any AE duration spell).
Having a spell cast on you (any spell).
Touching someone who has that spell active on them (duration buffs or debuffs).
Reading a spell from a scroll or spellbook (any spell).None of the ways mentioned above will teach the ring.
Actually all those forms work.
having the spell cast on the ring is a cast version of the spell. So is having it cast on you.
Walking into the area of a AE spell with duration is encountering an active spell.
"Touching" isn't required, just encountering someone with the active spell on them is enough.
You list ways to encounter a spell. Not to actually get the spell into the ring. There is only one way to do that. Make the Spellcraft DC 20 check.
/cevah
So by buying a spellbook, and a ring the sorcerer gains access to *all* utility spells of a given level for a partly level squared x 1500gp.
A comparison for spells up to 4th lvl.
Wizard : Cost of spell book + at least 15 minutes = Spell !
Sorcerer : Cost of spell book + successful DC 20 Spellcraft check as a standard action + Ring Slot + spell lvl(squared)x1500gp for the Ring itself = Spell !
I still don't see how it's taking away from the wizard. By giving up an item slot and resources you can get what the wizard already has.
I'm creating a bard BBEG that I want to be able to use this Mnemonic Vestment/spellbook trick for utility spells and items creation spells. He could just get a hedge wizard to add needed spells to his spellbook after purchasing the scrolls, but it would be a lot easier if he could do it himself. Considering it is a 1/day that requires an item slot to pull off, it's not like he could whip this out all day long and become UBER-CASTER!
...TRANSCRIBING spells into a spellbook is a wizard feature.
So can a sorcerer pay someone to write the spell into a spellbook, and use 'Read Magic' to understand the spell?
Resurrecting...
The entry does not specify anything about rewriting. What say you?