Hi me and my group our going to play Kingmaker, with a 15 point buy, core race and core classes only but archetypes are allowed. I have never played a cleric before but my group severely needs a healer but that's not all I would like to do, and I would also like to be combative. Our group consists of. Rogue, paladin(Tank), ranger(bow with pet hawk or eagle), and a fire wizard(tho our gm has advised against fiery spell casters.) I have built several clerics but i just cant seem to get a deity that will allow me to be a decent healer and a battler. Can anyone help me out or enlighten me?
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Either make a cleric of Gorum using a great sword and having the rage, and war domains or aCN cleric of Lamsshtu with a falchion and the demonand ferocity domains. Get selective channel as early as you can. You may want to pick up power attack and channel smite later or you could wait til tomorrow and see what the aar priest hybrid class looks like.
Ok but what race would you suggest and how should I stat it up with a 15pt buy?
Your group already has a healer in the paladin. Healing HP is only a small part of being a healer. Condition removal is important thing. A couple of wands of cure light wounds will usually take care keeping the party at full HP. For condition removal use scrolls and wands instead of memorizing the spells. If you look at the paladins spell list he has a lot of the spells you need for condition removal. He even gets lesser restoration as a first level spell.
That being said a battle cleric is a good choice for any party. Do not worry about focusing on healing because that is will take care of itself. The cleric spell list has all the spells you need for healing so again stock up on scrolls and wands. If you concentrate on buff and utility spells you do not need to max out wisdom. Keep your wisdom high enough to cast your spells and you will be fine.
You could also play an inquisitor, or an oracle of battle. Both those classes when combined with the paladin in the group will be able to handle healing without any trouble.
can't play inquisitor or Oracle core class only. And the pally wants to focus more on tanking then healing he chose pally to help the group but I could tell he did not like being the healer at all.
there are a couple of ways to build a combative cleric. partly, you need to ask yourself what balance you want/need between combat and spells... in a 15 point buy you're not really going to be able to do both well. there's 3 main builds to think about (that i know of):
1. reach cleric- you can build as a pretty standard cleric but choose a god that grants a reach weapon (or use a longspear) and take combat reflexes. the idea here is that you're going to spend most your turns casting/channeling/being a cleric, but you get to participate in combat by positioning yourself to make as many attacks of opportunity as possible. since you don't have a bard, i like the evangelist archetype for this, and you could actually combine this concept with one of the other two.
2. melee/strength- pick a god who favors a good martial/exotic 2hand weapon (and has good combat domains)- as mentioned, gorum and lamashtu are good choices; focus on str first and just keep Wis high enough that you never miss out on new spell levels (if you start with 14 Wis and invest all leveling points, you won't rely on a +2 Wis item until 15th level- 11th if you start with 13); select feats much like a fighter, memorize mostly buffs (and some status removal)- buff yourself for fights and use spontaneous cures as needed (CLW rods outside of combat will really aid your resource management).
3. melee/wisdom- i suggest human for this... pick a neutral god with a good 2hander and combat domains (i really like gorum for this, but lamashtu and others work too)- channel negative energy; try to get 14 str if possible, but focus on Wis above anything else... in a 15 point buy you should probably make an idiot (dump Int to 7- humans still get 2 skill points anyway) so you can pick up some Cha (for more channels and better DCs) and a little dex/con (your choice, probably won't be able to afford both); at first level take channel smite and guided hand (attacks with favored weapon now use Wis for attack rolls), power attack at 3rd level will help your damage (or combat refelexes if using a reach weapon); your normal damage will be lower than the strength build but you can use channel smite and bonuses from things like the destruction or strength[ferocity] domains to help make up for that and you'll have enough Wis to use some control or Save or Suck spells too. you can't spontaneously cure so you'll need to memorize a a few, but wands will really be your friend.
edit: i don't want to get too far off topic (or start anything) but 'tanks' being an asset to the party isn't generally all that true in pathfinder... if he makes a pally that's hard to hit and even harder to kill (thank to LoH) most enemies will very quickly maneuver around him to attack someone that a) doing more damage, and b) easier to kill (like the wizard or rogue or ranger...). if he wants to play a pally that's cool (i actually like them a lot), and he should be very effective against BBEGs, but if he's just making it because he thinks the party needs a meatshield he may very well be really disappointed (unless of course your GM plays every enemy like a mindless attacker that will rush whoever walks toward them first and only fight that target no matter how little sense it makes)
can't play inquisitor or Oracle core class only. And the pally wants to focus more on tanking then healing he chose pally to help the group but I could tell he did not like being the healer at all.
All anyone needs to do to be a healer is to have the right spells on his spell list. This does not require memorizing any healing spells, or spending feats on healing. Why would the paladin object to casting a spell off a scroll, or using a wand when combat is over? Healing is something best done out of combat except in emergency situations.
The sheer number of things that can go wrong mean that you can never have all the spells you may need memorized, so do not even bother. Using scroll, wands and potions to heal is the only sensible solution. The paladin will have lay on hands and mercies so he has some healing built into the class.
7 cha basically gives up an entire (fairly significant) class feature... you'd get 1 channel energy per day! if you want that kind of strength in a 15 point build you'd be better off making a fighter with dangerously curious (take focused study if its allowed) and invest a feat in skill focus [UMD]. at first level you'd be at +7-8 (depending on 8 or 10 Cha), which gives you about 45% chance to use a wand- in combat that gives you a fair chance to get a charge off if someone's in trouble and out of combat there's no penalty for failed rolls so it just makes the healing process a bit slower (or just have the pally use it between fights).
tough on 15 point. Go Half Orc with scared tattoo, Apprentice for Endurace
Str 7
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 16
Cha 13
I would take the Fates Favord Trait, this will give you another +1 to saves from Half orc and you will get the bouse when casting divine favor or eventually prayer.
The negative of this build is its Devish Dance and you need to worship Sarenrae(spelling) you will suck in combat until level 3 when you pick up Dervish Dance. The best thing may be 1st level bard dawnflower dervish. Now you can fight and you can pick up shield as a spell. At second level you could cast diving favor to start the combat and start dancing. Round 2 now you can fight, you don't have a BAB yet but dancing is +2 and divine favor is +2 so at level 2 you will be +8 to hit with scimitar +9 with MW, and do a d6+8 per hit crit on 18-20.
oh missed core only so bard is not an option, if Dervish Dance is not an option either for feat selection then well I would go
Str 16
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 7
Wis 14
Cha 14
Would still go Half Orc with my +2 in Str, first level feat Heavy Armor Pro. get plate mail ASAP. Though if you can't take fates favored trait Human would be good on same stats but pick up another feat. I would probably go Torag and do Archon and Defense, you will pick up shield as a domain spell. You can two hand the warhammer, or don't worry about shiled and just use a shield and warhammer. good luck.
a lot of people favoring Str builds... i'm not saying that's wrong but just for the sake of completeness here's a Wis build
N, human
cleric [gorum]
Str 14
Dex 10
Con 12 (add favored class bonus to HP too)
Int 7
Wis 18 (16+2race)
Cha 12
domains: destruction|rage (+1/2 lvl dmg; 3+Wis/day); strength|ferocity (+1/2 lvl dmg; 3+wis/day)
channel: negative energy- 1d6 damage, DC 10+(level/2)+Cha; 3+Cha/day
skills (if pally=face): know[religion] +2, perception +5
skills (pally=/=face): diplomacy +5, sense motive +8
feats: channel smite, guided hand
orisons: guidance, light, resistance (or virtue)
spells: enlarge person, CLW, divine favor
you're at +4 to hit with your greatsword- it does 2d6+3 base but 7/day you can add +2 to that (by using both domain smites), which should be pretty much every attack you make most days; you can also add 1d6 negative energy damage with channel smite 4/day (though they get a save for half) and once/day you get to be large for 1 minute (no change to hit but damage= 3d6+4... stack with smites for 3d6+6+1d6, not bad at first level). picking up power attack at 3rd will help damage, and anything that ups attack bonus will be helpful with 3/4 BAB. the nice thing about this build is that you can include some control... so, at 3rd level you can prepare Hold Person and have a pretty respectable 16 DC (while most fighter will be at +1-2 Will).
i know some people really don't like it when they ask for advice with one thing and people suggest something else entirely, but (since i already offered a bunch of on-topic advice) i'm going to risk it...
have you thought about making a druid instead? your PC won't be as solid in melee starting off, but you're animal companion should more than make up for that... actually, animal companions don't scale with the point buy so they're more powerful in low point buy campaigns (relative to the PCs). then at 4th level you gain wildshape and should be able to contribute to melee with your PC too.
your heals get delayed a little bit and you don't get every status remover, but as many people have said you should be using wands as much as possible and (i think) the paladin should be able to handle removing any status you can't (carry around some scrolls for him/you to use). and, you'll have some more 'blasting' options than a cleric would (with a handful of fire/cold spells).
another benefit of the druid in a 15pb is that its slightly less MAD than a battle cleric because the only thing you lose from dumping Cha is wild empathy (which at least one decent archetype drops anyways), that'll free up some points.
N, dwarf
druid [menhir savant]
Str 14
Dex 12
Con 14 (12+2race) favored class bonus to HP
Int 10
Wis 18 (16+2race)
Cha 5 (7-2race)
bond: animal companion- big cat
spirit sense: detect undead, fey, outsiders, and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures at will (as detect undead spell)
skills: heal +8, know[nature] +4, perception +8, survival +8
feats: whatever you want (steel soul and iron hide are nice dwarven options... toughness always helps at 1st too)
orisons: create water, detect poison, stabilize
spells: CLW, entangle
you have more HP than the cleric, and more/better skills- don't underestimate the usefulness the heal skill. your melee ability is less than the cleric but you can get in there with a scimitar if/when you want (since you have very few spells at 1-2 level)- plus your animal companion will be very useful in combat. if your GM is reasonably easy with changing animal companion, switch to a small cat at 4th (its better because it already has its upgrade) and back to a large cat at 7th. either way the animal should be an asset in combat every level (and even more so once you have enough spells to invest some buffing it), and at 4th level, thanks to wildshape, you'll have 16 Str and 3 primary natural attacks as a bear or cheetah...
thanks guys your advice has really helped.
I'm playing in Kingmaker (GMed 1-4, played 4-7 so far), and it is really wildernessy, so a druid would shine. Our ranger has a big cat (I think: a jaguar or cougar or leopard or something) companion, and it is VERY effective in combat--the archer ranger actually felt a bit out-shined by her own animal companion!
again thank you all, I was not able to choose myself but I slimmed down my choices to three. I will let my group decide which of the three I will play but I will tell you the three I made.
1. Nate_lange's Human cleric of Gorum.
2. Ashe strength based cleric of Torag.
3. the third choice was one of my own creation altho it is not a "battle cleric" it have boon spells which will help. it is a halfling of Vildeis, High on healing but can be part of combat if I choose too.
Nate asked me to let you guys know and I think you diserve that much for all the help thanks again.