At 4th level, a myrmidarch can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack. Even if the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies the attack. At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects). Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost.
So I have a question about the above. When one uses "normal" spellstrike one can miss with an attack while holding a charge and hold it indefinitely.
In the Ranged Spellstrike ability the phrase "Any effects not used in the round the spell is cast are lost." I'm assuming prevents me from holding charges between rounds. So like say I had 3 charges of Chill Touch and could only attack twice in the round I cast it, I'd lose the third charge, right?
If that's the case it sucks, but I can deal with it. However there's another situation that isn't quite so clearly labeled to me. Say you cast Shocking Grasp with metamagic Reach (or simply Snowball if you'd prefer since it has to be a ranged touch). You only get one charge of it but the damage goes up based on caster level. The way the ability is phrased sounds to me like you put the charge into the ranged weapon which then transfers into the projectile. That's well and good if you're using a bow of some sort...but say you were using a throwing weapon?
If I'm reading this right you imbue the charge into the thrown weapon (shuriken, dagger, whatever) and then throw it. So my question is this: What happens to the charge if you miss? If the ranged weapon clatters to the floor does it discharge the spell and it's just wasted? Or do you get to hold on to the charge until you make a successful connection assuming you make one that round via multiple attacks?
I hope it's the latter but the former does make sense in some respects XD
Aw...no one has opinions? Or answers? Answers would be good XD
Well, I dont think a "reach" shocking grasp would work (it's not a ranged touch), but as for normal ranged touch attacks, they dont have "charges" that can be maintained (like melee touch attacks), so you cant mainain them over multiple rounds (as specifically stated).
There are problems with the myrmidarch, namely that you cant spell combat with a ranged weapon, so no casting then full attack. It's an issue that's bugged me and makes me think there is a need for an errata.
Reach Spell (Metamagic)
Your spells go farther than normal.
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long.
Level Increase: Special. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher.
Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.
I believe the bolded part allows shocking grasp to be treated as a ranged touch attack.
However that's not quite my question. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Lets try it this way:
You cast Acid Splash, ranged touch attack with only a single charge. Using Ranged Spellstrike grants you one free ranged attack via the casting of Acid Splash that you can transmit through a ranged attack along with a normal attack.
Now under regular spell-strike you can miss with the free attack granted by the touch attack and then hit with the normal attack to discharge the spell. So my question is does the same work with ranged spell strike?
Situation would be this:
Cast Acid Splash (Ranged Touch Attack) with Ranged Spellstrike
Ranged Spellstrike allows you one free attack with a ranged weapon augmented by Acid Splash=>Miss first attack
Use normal attack with another ranged attack=>Hit. Since Acid Splash was never discharged can you apply it to the second hit?
Edit: Whoops I think I figured out the confusion. Most ranged weapons require two hands, thus no spellcombat. However, thrown weapons such as darts apply to ranged spell strike and only take one hand, thus can be used with spellcombat which is what I'm doing here.
The ability to hold a charge as far as I know is unconnnected to holding a charge. If the question is can I hold a charged on a ranged touch spell the answer is no.
The ability to hold a charge as far as I know is unconnnected to holding a charge. If the question is can I hold a charged on a ranged touch spell the answer is no.
Hrm...that's not quite what I'm asking but I think I've gathered enough pieces of the puzzle to figure it out.
Ignoring ranged spellstrike, a ranged touch spell is a hit or miss with no holding, as opposed to a melee touch spell, correct? Thus ranged spellstrike would have to work the same way.
Bleh. Lame. Ah well.
@ UWS: no, spell combat specifies you need one hand free "while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand". No exceptions for ranged attacks, unless you're throwing daggers (which count as both, i think?). But I still think you dont "maintain" a chrge for a ranged touch attack, since you've "sent it out" in a way. Maybe it's like the fact that after you've thrown an encahnted arrow, even if it misses, it looses it's enchantment? This isnt exactly something I'M 100% clear on.
@ UWS: no, spell combat specifies you need one hand free "while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand". No exceptions for ranged attacks, unless you're throwing daggers (which count as both, i think?). But I still think you dont "maintain" a chrge for a ranged touch attack, since you've "sent it out" in a way. Maybe it's like the fact that after you've thrown an encahnted arrow, even if it misses, it looses it's enchantment? This isnt exactly something I'M 100% clear on.
Neither am I, hence the question XD lol.
But I believe this is what allows ranged spellstrike to work(taken from the rules on two weapon fighting):
Thrown Weapons
The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapons when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon.
Thus, you can use spell-combat with "light weapons" which include darts and shurikens in reference to two weapon fighting. Yes I know spell combat specifically mentions "melee" weapons but I believe the intent of Ranged Spellstrike is to allow use of spellcombat with it. i.e. it needs an errata or FAQ as you suggested XD lol
There are problems with the myrmidarch, namely that you cant spell combat with a ranged weapon, so no casting then full attack. It's an issue that's bugged me and makes me think there is a need for an errata.
There's nothing wrong with ranged spellstriking as you're still getting an action economy benefit (spell + ranged attack).
The myrmidarch was not meant to make the magus a ranged specialist. It's supposed to make him a master-of-arms-and-armor kind of guy. We need a true ranged archetype from Paizo, but I understand why they're hesitant on having a ranged spell combat. Full-attacking is easy as a ranged combatant. The entire point of spell combat is to grant a massive action economy benefit that only applies when in a risky melee engagement. A ranged spell combat would take away the only limitation to the ability.
Cyrad, that can't be right. Ranged spellstrike has it in it's description that spells with multiple rays need multiple attacks; which you can't do since you can't full attack because you can't spell combat!
So the intent was to give him the ability to do that at least. Probably. Maybe.
Oh, yeah, that's quite right! I think the intent was that ranged spellstrike allowed you to full attack as part of the spellcasting action. I think this deserves its own thread to FAQ it.
I'm pretty sure the intent of Myrmidarch is to make a magus that is more of a fighter who casts then a caster who fights.
Not sure "fighter" is the term I'd use. The Myrmidarch seems to push the Magus into a more ranged combat role than a frontline fighter. Although in my specific case he's gonna be a dart throwing caster so the range is still gonna be short but...meh that's the fun part XD
Oh, yeah, that's quite right! I think the intent was that ranged spellstrike allowed you to full attack as part of the spellcasting action. I think this deserves its own thread to FAQ it.Cyrad, that can't be right. Ranged spellstrike has it in it's description that spells with multiple rays need multiple attacks; which you can't do since you can't full attack because you can't spell combat!
So the intent was to give him the ability to do that at least. Probably. Maybe.
The issue I see with the level 11 part of this ability is that it specifically mentions using a "full-attack" action. However, Spell Combat is clearly labeled as as "full-round" action and not a "full-attack" action and I keep having people remind me that those two things aren't exactly the same...