I'm looking for suggestions for a good, 3PP rogue/thief/sly fox/knowledgeable scamp/shady character and so on. That is, a complete class from the ground up that you feel is reasonably balanced.
I've always felt the Core rogue has a conflicting message (Am I a thief? A scamp? Am I a sexier fighter?) and while I loved Kirth's concepts he put forward...
...I don't want to add 40+ pages of material, nor delve into Kirthfinder (sorry, Kirth!).
My group also isn't interested in the ninja, so that route isn't an option.
Well, there's the Spy from A Fistful of Denarii. If that doesn't suit you, you can almost certainly make something using SGG's The Talented Rogue that you will be pleased with. What kind of abilities are you looking for?
Cheapy/Will McCardell's Vicious Opportunist in Thr Secrets of Tactical Archetypes II is a nice alternate to the Rogue.
You might find the cutthroat archetype for soulknives quite interesting. You get a bit more skill points (6+int), a bonus to 2 useful skills when focused, and sneak attack in case you need the extra help. It definitely feels like more of an assassin than trapspringer or smooth talker, though it could fit the roles somewhat.
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Thanks Oceanshieldwolf! That is more of a patch than a whole new rogue, but it definitely changes the way it works.
There's the Shadow Assassin by super genius games. This is more of the mystical rogue type, and at first probably seems weaker than the rogue.
In necroupunk we have the Stalker and Wild Card that kind of fill the rogue niches (stealthy damage dealer and skill monkey respectively).
Our Brave from "Heroes of the West" fits the rogue niche a bit (it is a hit and run melee characters) though it might be closer to a ranger.
We did a "Skirmisher" that focuses on creativity and critical hits with a crazy dice mechanic to represent this (and it's free!)
We've also done a fence which is a cavalier alternate but it uses precision damage and bravado (fits more into your "sexier fighter" set up).
Thanks Oceanshieldwolf! That is more of a patch than a whole new rogue, but it definitely changes the way it works.
There's the Shadow Assassin by super genius games. This is more of the mystical rogue type, and at first probably seems weaker than the rogue.
I agree with the above. The talented rogue is (in my opinion) at its best when you use the rules in the talented monk to combine the two. It means you can have the sneak and skilled nature of the rogue, but not have the messy sneak attack be your combat option.
Also the shadow assasin is an excellent class that I have used to good effect a couple of times. But it is very much like the ninja (rogue with mystical powers). So assuming theme is why your group doesnt want ninjas, they probably will feel the same about the shadow assasin.
The super genius games Time theif is also a possibility. Quite skilled, lots of stealth options, can gain trapfinding and such through talents. But its roll in combat is debuffing and not really damage. So that is something to keep in mind.
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You can find a whole heap more Rogue concepts HERE by looking at the Rogue Primary Class multiclass archetypes, including the Adept Scoundrel, Battle Knave, Spell Thief, Arcane Sneak and more.
Have you seen this? Super Genius has a couple other Rogue-products as well.
I'll be sure and check these out. Thank you kindly for the input, everyone. :)