Black Tentacles & Create Pit Spell Interaction

[Glabrezu Bob]

Assume a wizard has dropped black tentacles on a hapless PC, we'll call him "A".

Party member A fails his check and is grappled. In the following round, A fails his check again, and Party member B heroically runs up to stand next to A, and passes his check to avoid being grappled.

On his initiative the Wizard then casts Create Pit as denoted in the bolded area below.

B B B B B
B B P A B
B B P B B
B B B B B

How do the two spells interact? More specifically:

• Do the BT’s ‘fall’ into the pit? Or do they stay level with the original height of the ground. Note that the description of create pit includes: “the pit has no weight and does not otherwise displace the original underlying material.”

• If BT’s stay level with the original ground height, do they ‘extend’ downwards into the pit per the spell effect radius?

• Will A (grappled) actually need to make a reflex save to fall, since he is grappled by BT? Or does he stay stuck above the pit?

• If party member B fails his reflex save, does he need to immediately save against BT, as he is ‘shunted’ to edge of the pit (where BT is?)

• If B fails his save and is knocked prone at the bottom, is he immediately grappled by BT?

Any clarification from more experienced GMs would be greatly appreciated.

[blahpers]

I'm not sure of the intent here. The pit spells seem to create all kinds of interesting problems due to their extradimensional nature. If I were the GM in question, I'd have the tentacles sink to the bottom, but the other interpretation is certainly understandable.

[Mo the Felonious Monk]

Yes. I want to play the PCs wizard opponent with the appropriate level of threat from an intelligent, controlling caster, but I don't want to arbitrarily make the encounter too difficult by misinterpreting rules. I do feel that having both a pit and BT together should be significantly more difficult to overcome.

I'm leaning to having the BT stay where it is, and extend in a 20 foot radius up from the original floor. Anyone who falls in won't be grappled, but since they have to climb up, once they reach the top they will face an immediate grapple check. I'm still mulling over how being grappled would affect anyone who failed the reflex save versus falling, since the BT can't be 'dragged' into the pit

[Ravingdork]

So if I'm on a bridge with several enemies, and then cast create pit on the bridge, they fall into the pit, right? They are now below the bridge in an extradimensional space.

What happens if I then dispel the pit? Do they pop out, below the bridge, thereby falling to their death?

EDIT: Nevermind.

Dispel Magic wrote:

A dispelled spell ends as if its duration had expired.

Create Pit wrote:

When the duration of the spell ends, creatures within the hole rise up with the bottom of the pit until they are standing on the surface over the course of a single round.

[Quantum Steve]

Ravingdork wrote:

So if I'm on a bridge with several enemies, and then cast create pit on the bridge, they fall into the pit, right? They are now below the bridge in an extradimensional space.

What happens if I then dispel the pit? Do they pop out, below the bridge, thereby falling to their death?

They are not below the bridge, they are in an extra dimensional space. If one was to fly beneath the bridge, the would be no enemies, no pit, no hole, nothing. The pit only exists on the material plane at it's opening. If you dispel the pit, the opening is the only place the enemies could possibly be ejected.

[Grimmy]

I say the pit replaces the tentacles for those four squares, but tentacles from neighboring squares still wriggle menacingly over the edge of the pit. So when you climb up you still have tentacles to deal with.

[Robb Smith]

Quote:

Do the BT’s ‘fall’ into the pit? Or do they stay level with the original height of the ground. Note that the description of create pit includes: “the pit has no weight and does not otherwise displace the original underlying material.”

In the example provided, the tentacles remain in place at the casted height. The rules for spread make no mention of the affected area being recalculated if the environment it is cast into changes. This is later reinforced with the sentence If the spell affects an area, then the spell stays with that area for its duration. The tentacles are anchored into the ground underneath the plane of the created extradimensional space.

Quote:

If BT’s stay level with the original ground height, do they ‘extend’ downwards into the pit per the spell effect radius?

GM's interpretation. I would rule since the tentacles emerge from underneath the extradimensional space, which is a one way portal, the answer is "no". It would be a GM call if they could bend down and reach into the pit.

Quote:

Will A (grappled) actually need to make a reflex save to fall, since he is grappled by BT? Or does he stay stuck above the pit?

My reading of the RAW leads me to this conclusion: The rules for grapple state that you cannot move. However, falling is not moving, it is involuntary movement being effected on your character.

Since the tentacles cannot move (as established above), the character falls into the pit through involuntary movement. The tentacles are unable to remain adjacent, and as such the grapple immediately fails.

Quote:

If party member B fails his reflex save, does he need to immediately save against BT, as he is ‘shunted’ to edge of the pit (where BT is?)

Yes. He enters the area of effect (albeit unwillingly) and is immediately attacked. "Entering" is a harsher form of "moves into".

Quote:

If B fails his save and is knocked prone at the bottom, is he immediately grappled by BT?

In my interpretation, no, as the tentacles do not extend into the pit.

[anarchitect]

Your evil wizard should cast Create Pit first, followed by black tentacles. My wizard calls this "Plan Sarlac."

[Ravingdork]

anarchitect wrote:

Your evil wizard should cast Create Pit first, followed by black tentacles. My wizard calls this "Plan Sarlac."

lol.

[Tinalles]

This is something to expect variation on, I think.

In my own campaign, I actually had a BBEG cast Create Pit under her own feet specifically to escape a Black Tentacles spell. I treated the black tentacles as non-existent for the area of the pit, but allowed the BTs to operate in the area around it (extending over the edge of adjacent squares). Then she used her wings to fly straight up past the black tentacles.