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Jeff - No worries - just a minor correction - the rest looked right. This thread helped me out - I found it while researching prestige buys for ammunition. The prestige adamantine hunter in me was really wishing regular arrows had an exception for lots of 10, if you know what I mean. ;-) I would love to be able to use 2PP for 10 adamantine arrows.
ps. Nefreet - please stop posting about thread necro. If I see a problem or something that bears further comment, I am going to offer a correction and/or try to contribute to improve the overall forum compilation to help others searching for similar answers, regardless of thread age and whether or not you approve. You make a lot of great contributions here, but your necro commentary is really not needed. Also, no need to discuss this issue further. Thx.
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Just saying, if it's your personal mission to "correct the Internet", you're going to be at it for some time.
There's probably a few thousand threads that were created back in 2008 and 2009 that could use your attention as well.
Or, you could let trivial typos lie.
Also, no need to discuss this issue further. Thx ;-)
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Sebastian - The situation to which I am referring is that you cannot use prestige to buy more than a single durable adamantine arrow - the lot size is 1 for those alchemical items and they cost 61gp each. So, a gp or 1PP purchase is required per arrow. If your point is that you can buy them 1 at a time as gold permits, I agree and it certainly helps with incremental PC builds.
I was also commenting that you cannot use prestige to buy a lot of 20 special material adamantine arrows (where special materials follow the mundane lot size rules, as above). Those cost 60.05gp each and a lot of 20 costs 1201gp (exceeds the 750gp/2PP limit for a single item PFS purchase).
However, you can use 2PP to buy a lot of 10 special material adamantine crossbow bolts, which has an equivalent cost of 601gp.
If it were up to me, I'm not sure I would set the bar so high for the arrow lot size. For example, PCs who dedicate their lives to archery should be able to get the best arrows from their faction by making optimal use of the prestige they have earned. What difference does it make and why should there be an ammunition materials purchasing advantage for crossbow or other lot-10-or-less ammunition users with respect to prestige buys?
There is an interesting point of counter-balance, which is that crossbows are slower to use and require feats to make them more usable, whereas that is not the case for bows. So, does [harder/slower to use + cheap (prestige) bolts] somehow balance [easier to use + expensive (gp required) arrows]? Maybe. Or is it just a fluke of arbitrary legacy lot size definitions vs. PFS rules? Hmmm. Why couldn't the lot size for arrows be 10, regardless of quiver size? Based on the number of arrow types, having to buy 20 of each to get what you want (blunt, normal, whistling, smoke, etc.) doesn't really make sense and only a fraction will ever be used in the context of most PFS scenarios.
"Non-magical arrows must be purchased in lots of 20 (with some exceptions, such as the alchemical arrows from EoG, which can be purchased individually)."
...must be purchased individually (lot size = 1)
However, that raises an interesting question - given the description of alchemical arrows:
These arrows are tightly wrapped in strands of some kind of alchemical glue.
Is it reasonable to assume that the durable property might be able to be applied after the fact? Theoretically, any arrow or bolt can be wrapped in strands of alchemical glue. Or if not, why not? How is alchemical glue different from a weapon blanch or anything else that can be applied to the exterior of the ammunition?
It's moot for arrows, since they are always a gp buy at lot size = 20, but not for bolts.
The clear advantage would be that you could get 10 adamantine bolts with 2PP and add the durable wrapping afterwards for 10gp (and/or even throw in some amount for the hireling alchemist to do it, given that the PC is supplying the base adamantine bolt ammunition).
The alchemical arrow descriptions in Elves of Golarion may open the door for this type of reasoning when it comes to the use of certain alchemical materials that are either wrapped or simply applied to the exterior of the ammunition with no direct connection to underlying fabrication.
Does anyone know of a prior discussion or FAQ regarding adding durable after the fact? I looked but didn't find anything.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I am not entirely sure if the PP purchase rule is intended to to interact one way or the other with ammunition, and frankly there are already so many great options for PP purchases, that it isn't a huge issue for me.
6 durable adamantine arrows are pretty cheap and at the lower levels usually enough to last a fight, once haste becomes available you should be able to afford a couple more.
As Nefreet mentioned, you can't just add durable after the fact, especially in PFS, just like you can't use a boon to buy that alchemical silver masterwork rapier (410 GP) if the boon says nonmagical item up to 400 GP; you can't just pitch in 10 GP of your own.
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Sebastian - true. It's sometimes hard to use 3 adamantine arrows, unless you're stuck in Numeria.
My question about durable was mostly intended as a hypothetical - what is the underlying reason that an existing adamantine arrow cannot be wrapped with strands of alchemical glue to make it durable? Granted not all rules make sense in any particular gaming system, but how is it any different from a weapon blanch or any other alchemical substance that you can add to existing ammunition? I put forward that it isn't, and from a logical standpoint, it is a restriction that makes no sense and appears arbitrary. From the description of durable, there is nothing about it that would appear to require the purchase of an additional arrow (other than the fact that it's a rule).
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what is the underlying reason that an existing adamantine arrow cannot be wrapped with strands of alchemical glue to make it durable?
Mechanically, and In- and Out-of-Character, you can. You just buy a Adamantine Durable Arrow. It would cost you 61gp (1gp for the Durable Arrow + 60gp for Adamantine).
The problem is that you're looking at one example of the pricing system and making the claim that yours is an easy solution. It's been done to death in this forum regarding all sorts of items. "Adding modification X to item Y is easy, why can't we allow this?"
By opening the doors to one example (being able to add Durable to a pre-existing arrow), you'd be opening the floodgates to myriad other examples. And those exceptions would all need to be codified somewhere, which adds another thing to the list for GMs and players to keep track of.
Purchasing items is already somewhat complex for new players, and even some veterans. We don't need to complicate things more. If you want an Adamantine Durable Arrow, fork over the 61gp for it. There's no need to buy 19 regular arrows and have an extra one wrapped in glue.