Bite Attack from different sources


Rules Questions


How do bite attacks from different sources combine?

Currently I am wondering for a kitsune with the serpentine bloodline and the bite attack that comes with the bloodline.


You get the best bite attack your multiple abilities provide and ignore the rest - they don't stack. Since the Serpentine bloodline gives you a better bite attack (same damage but includes poison), you would go with that one.


You need multiple heads to take advantage of multiple bite attacks.

... and what does your characters family reunion look like?


Note: for Kistune, tails aren't heads.


DM_Blake wrote:
You get the best bite attack your multiple abilities provide and ignore the rest - they don't stack. Since the Serpentine bloodline gives you a better bite attack (same damage but includes poison), you would go with that one.

This is it. It's like having an Amulet of Natural Armor +1 and casting Barkskin. When Barkskin isn't in effect, you still have the +1 from the Amulet. But when Barkskin is in play, you benefit from the greater bonus it provides and, essentially, ignore your Amulet for the time being.


Cheapy wrote:
Note: for Kistune, tails aren't heads.

*scribbles down another idea for Lovecraftian PF game*

Grand Lodge

What about a crossblooded Orc/Red dragon Sorcerer 9 Dragon Disciple 7, with Eldritch heritage Serpentine blood line.

Does this sound correct?

1d6 bite + 1d6 fire + poison


I think you'd have to pick which bite applied, not get the additional effects of all of your bite attacks. But it depends on how each ability is worded. For example, dragon disciple states that "this bite also deals 1d6 etc.", meaning that the additional energy damage applies only to the bite granted by dragon disciple, not other bites.

There's no way to pick the "best" bite in this scenario since they have different abilities that are not objectively better or worse, so the simplest way I can think of is to pick which bite you use per head when attacking.

Grand Lodge

I think that is the way most people would rule as well. My only concern is the wording in serpent bloodline.

Serpent’s Fang:
(Ex): At 1st level, you can grow fangs as a free action. These fangs are treated as a natural weapon inflicting 1d4 points of damage plus your Strength modifier (1d3 if you are Small) plus poison (Bite—injury; save Fort DC 10 + 1/2 your sorcerer level + your Constitution modifier; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1 Con damage; cure 1 save). At 5th level, these fangs are considered magical for the purpose of overcoming DR and the poison damage increases to 1d2 Con. At 7th level, your poison requires 2 successful saves to cure. At 11th level, your poison damage increases to 1d4 Con. You can use your fangs for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.

Universal monster rule Poison (Ex or Su) A creature with this ability can poison those it attacks. The effects of the poison, including its save, frequency, and cure, are included in the creature's description. The saving throw to resist a poison is usually a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 poisoning creature's racial HD + creature's Con modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature's descriptive text). Poisons can be removed through neutralize poison and similar effects.

Format: Poison Name (Ex) sting—injury; save Fort DC 22, frequency 1/round for 6 rounds, effect 1d4 Con, cure 2 consecutive saves; Location: Special Attacks and individual attacks.

This almost seems as though poison is meant to be tacked on to any bite attack. however it sounds cheesy, and manipulative to attempt to read it that way.


If the poison specifier stood alone, that would mean that all of your bite attacks poisoned.

However, Serpent's Fang states that the fangs deliver the poison. If you don't attack with those fangs, you don't have the poison ability at all, so the "Bite--injury" specifier never comes into play.

Grand Lodge

Dragon Claws:
At 2nd level, whenever the dragon disciple uses his bloodline to grow claws, he also gains a bite attack. This is a primary natural attack that deals 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if the dragon disciple is Small), plus 1–1/2 times the dragon disciple's Strength modifier. Upon reaching 6th level, this bite also deals 1d6 points of energy damage. The type of damage dealt is determined by the dragon disciple's bloodline.

Claws:
(Su): Starting at 1st level, you can grow claws as a free action. These claws are treated as natural weapons, allowing you to make two claw attacks as a full attack action using your full base attack bonus. Each of these attacks deals 1d4 points of damage plus your Strength modifier (1d3 if you are Small). At 5th level, these claws are considered magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming DR. At 7th level, the damage increases by one step to 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if you are Small). At 11th level, these claws deal an additional 1d6 points of damage of your energy type on a successful hit. You can use your claws for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier. These rounds do not need to be consecutive

I'm not trolling here, I just enjoy theoryfinder and discussions. Serpents fang does not grant a primary natural attack like Dragons bite does.

So it's my characters turn here is my action.

Free action grow claws via draconic bloodline, that gives me a bite with the dragon disciple prestige class at level 2.

So now I have a character with claws and a bite attack, that can use another free action. With the additional free action the character grows fangs per serpents fang ability.

So now I have a character that has teeth, and fangs. Can I not use them at the same time?


Not unless you have two or more heads or the ability to bite twice in general. The devs have somewhat clarified that you only get a natural attack with an appendage if it's the only attack yoh take with that appendage. Just as you have to choose between punching (say with an open-fingered cestus) and clawing with a given hand, you have to choose which natural weapon to use with a given head.

This isn't rock-solid RAW, but design intent is to prevent using a limb more than once in a given full-attack sequence when natural attacks are involved in any way. If you have feats or abilities that give additional attacks, you might be able to switch bites for each attack depending on the ability's wording, but you never get a 2-for-1 benefit based on having two bite weapons on the same head--you only gain versatility.

Grand Lodge

Sounds good to me.

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