Goblin Squad Member
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The whole concept of "sucking" is based on a false assumption that players that play that way, care about sucking according to what you believe. Let me put some numbers to my arguement:
Let us assume that the highest level a CE, Low Rep character can achieve is 15, and the norm is 20.
Your average player may say, "Man that sucks, I won't do that".
The Griefer is saying, "Who gives a @$&@ I can kill noobs all day at level 15. I'm on it to harvest their tears. That is my game!!"
Now we have the contradiction. First GW says that if you are CE and Low Rep you will be limited. Then they say, but the power curve will be slight. One offsets the other, you can't have it both ways.
Sorry but I think you have missed badly on the psychology of a griefer here, or of any gamer for that matter. Gamers rage quit games over PERCEIVED injustices to their characters, much less actual ones that the devs are telling you have been placed there on purpose. Dancey is telling us that the disadvantages are going to be palpable, forget about a "nerfed class" this is going to be much worse than that.
Griefers will not stick around so that higher level "noobs" can beat them. No way that will happen. Nobody likes playing gimped characters, most especially PvP oriented players.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My second prediction...Duly listed in my Predictions list.
Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb here and make (and list!) my own Prediction:
Bluddwolf and Xeen won't be posting on these boards when PFO hits Open Enrollment, and won't be publicly identifiable by those names if they're even playing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The reason I asked those questions is exactly because only Ryan or the Devs could answer them.
...You can have CE, be high rep, and not be an a#~$!$% or jerk or whatever other name Ryan has for his players.
There is a conceptual dissonance there. Only Ryan and the Devs can answer, but the answer from Ryan and the devs doesn't 'answer' your question to your satisfaction. The implication is that you think you can answer the question, so I have to wonder why you asked in the first place if you already have the knowledge.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think one thing that will help this title a lot is that EVE exists, Darkfall exists. These games make no attempt to limit player behavior in any way. Scammers, griefers, and just plain @&/holes not only suffer no penalties, but are applauded for their "creativity."
Why would they choose this title over those when the developers have made it plain they won't be catered to here? Why would they stick around when they discover the penalties are real?
A great many of them won't, which will make a great many others who don't like putting up with their abuse decide to stay.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think one thing that will help this title a lot is that EVE exists, Darkfall exists. These games make no attempt to limit player behavior in any way. Scammers, griefers, and just plain @&/holes not only suffer no penalties, but are applauded for their creativity.
Why would they choose this title over those when the developers have made it plain they won't be catered to here? Why would they stick around when they discover the penalties are real?
A great many of them won't, which will make a great many others who don't like putting up with their abuse decide to stay.
That's an excellent point--security is often about being a relatively harder target, making other targets more attractive.
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CEO, Goblinworks
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@Andius that's exactly my hope. There are lots of game options for people who just want to be jerks. It will be years before Pathfinder Online is big enough to be meaningful competition in terms of size & number of targets vs. those other options. So I believe that if given the choice between being a jerk successfully in a game with lots of targets, vs. being a jerk in a mechanically disadvantaged situation in a game where the targets believe they can seek relief from the authorities from jerks, the jerks will pick the former, not the latter.
And I further believe that if that pattern is set early, and reinforced strongly, that it becomes self-perpetuating as the size of the game will grow. Avoiding toxicity early will create the conditions to maintain a low toxicity as the game becomes more successful and attracts the attention of a larger and larger audience.
Fundamentally what I think most players want, and have not found, is a game where there is substantial risk, and where there is conflict and danger, but where the harassment and intentional infliction of emotional distress just for the lulz is minimized. That's the environment we want to engineer into the game from the beginning. Certainly it will take endless tinkering to try and maintain that culture, but that's the good thing about games as services - continuous development and iteration is built into the plan from the beginning.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is a conceptual dissonance there. Only Ryan and the Devs can answer, but the answer from Ryan and the devs doesn't 'answer' your question to your satisfaction. The implication is that you think you can answer the question, so I have to wonder why you asked in the first place if you already have the knowledge.The reason I asked those questions is exactly because only Ryan or the Devs could answer them.
...You can have CE, be high rep, and not be an a#~$!$% or jerk or whatever other name Ryan has for his players.
Being... They... Havent... Answered... The... Questions...
No... I... Cant... Answer... The... Questions...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think one thing that will help this title a lot is that EVE exists, Darkfall exists. These games make no attempt to limit player behavior in any way. Scammers, griefers, and just plain @&/holes not only suffer no penalties, but are applauded for their "creativity."
Why would they choose this title over those when the developers have made it plain they won't be catered to here? Why would they stick around when they discover the penalties are real?
A great many of them won't, which will make a great many others who don't like putting up with their abuse decide to stay.
Yes, but the nasty things like griefing and scamming that goes on there will get you banned here.
GREAT
SOUNDS
GOOD
SO
WHY
NERF
A
PLANNED
PLAY
STYLE
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why does CE have to be consistent with low reputation? This part I do not understand, someone can play CE completely in the game as so far intended and not be low reputation.
Why will it be hard to be CE and not be a jerk? This part I do not understand, someone can play CE completely in the game as so far intended and not be a jerky a*$@#*~.
So, CE will suck and LE will be all powerful?
The reason I asked those questions is exactly because only Ryan or the Devs could answer them.
As I see it now, with what we have, you can play CE and have a high reputation...
Chaotic - SAD and always honor it
Evil - Assassin and make good on contractsYou can have CE, be high rep, and not be an a%$*~@+ or jerk
Im annoyed that these things would be put into the game then be pre-game-nerfbatted.
Thats what I wanted to ask.
I am not trying to be a jerk by asking these questions, I just want to know whats in your head for this... Im seeing players being called jerks and a~+@*@+s for things you are coding into the game for them to do and it just doesnt sound right to me.
I want the griefers banned
I want the scammers banned
But I also want all the play styles to be here too.
(And I do think LG should be difficult to play and be all powerful, even though Im not going to play it)
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Goblin Squad Member
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My second prediction...Duly listed in my Predictions list.Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb here and make (and list!) my own Prediction:
Bluddwolf and Xeen won't be posting on these boards when PFO hits Open Enrollment, and won't be publicly identifiable by those names if they're even playing.
Nice Nihimon, so you want to get back to poking each other with a stick?
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CEO, Goblinworks
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I am not trying to be a jerk by asking these questions, I just want to know whats in your head for this... Im seeing players being called jerks and a#!!%!&s for things you are coding into the game for them to do and it just doesnt sound right to me.
A knife can be used to fillet a fish or kill a man. The presence of a tool does not imply that all uses of that tool are equally valid.
There are lots of tools in the Pathfinder Online sandbox. Some of the uses to which those tools can be put are unwanted. So instead of removing the tool, we seek to remove the behavior associated with the misuse of the tool.
I don't want all play styles in the game. There's a wide range of play styles I just don't want. I could just say "we don't want them", but that won't work - it's inherent in those play styles to intentionally violate rules and community standards; it's the point of those play styles to be transgressive. Therefore we need systems in addition to standards to deter that behavior.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My second prediction...Duly listed in my Predictions list.Actually, I'm going to go out on a limb here and make (and list!) my own Prediction:
Bluddwolf and Xeen won't be posting on these boards when PFO hits Open Enrollment, and won't be publicly identifiable by those names if they're even playing.
I'm in for at least 23 months starting with EE, but you're likely correct about not spending as much time on the forums.
As for my name in the game, you may not know me by name but you will know the UnNamed by our deeds.
... The players need to be able to engage in unsanctioned PvP to police such actions on their own. That, I think, is the reason we must be able to attack unflagged characters. Because some of them will definitely need killing. And the consequences for such killings need to be high enough that it isn't entered in lightly, but low enough we can do it sometimes. ...
Depends entirely on how it is done. There are some online games that I have found it almost impossible to get started playing since I was not in at the beginning and/or haven't advanced as fast as those early players.
Games where it seems like you get hammered by someone hugely more powerful than you every couple of minutes do not strike me as fun. I have been told that if you keep playing and are a 'good sport' about constantly getting killed they will eventually get tired of it and leave you alone for awhile. I don't think so. I see no reason to put up with a few weeks of hazing just so I can play a game with some friends.
Pardus and Pocket Fort are, to me, some examples of games that allow almost enough PvP but don't haze beginners.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am not trying to be a jerk by asking these questions, I just want to know whats in your head for this... Im seeing players being called jerks and a#!!%!&s for things you are coding into the game for them to do and it just doesnt sound right to me.A knife can be used to fillet a fish or kill a man. The presence of a tool does not imply that all uses of that tool are equally valid.
There are lots of tools in the Pathfinder Online sandbox. Some of the uses to which those tools can be put are unwanted. So instead of removing the tool, we seek to remove the behavior associated with the misuse of the tool.
I don't want all play styles in the game. There's a wide range of play styles I just don't want. I could just say "we don't want them", but that won't work - it's inherent in those play styles to intentionally violate rules and community standards; it's the point of those play styles to be transgressive. Therefore we need systems in addition to standards to deter that behavior.
Thats the part I dont understand... If you dont want it in your game then why put it there...
Your making the assassination mechanic, which requires you to be evil... but you dont want assassins in the game? Or is it you dont want assassins who assassinate people in the game?
Why will it be hard to be CE and not be a jerk?
Why does CE have to be consistent with low reputation?
Here is my play style, and you can tell me DIRECTLY if you want me in the game. Please answer this directly... I will tell you what I did in Eve. Also tell me what you think my alignment will be...
Small gang roams, we would roam around low sec and 0.0 looking for enemies and anyone else we came across. Some we would kill, all enemies we would kill... Including taking on larger gangs whenever we saw them... the most fun
Large fleets... mainly taking on enemies or other targets of opportunity.
We operated NBSI
Sometimes we would gate camp in 0.0. Sometimes we would run in and gank people in 0.0 through wormholes.
The focus was PVP, all else came second.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... The players need to be able to engage in unsanctioned PvP to police such actions on their own. That, I think, is the reason we must be able to attack unflagged characters. Because some of them will definitely need killing. And the consequences for such killings need to be high enough that it isn't entered in lightly, but low enough we can do it sometimes. ...Depends entirely on how it is done. There are some online games that I have found it almost impossible to get started playing since I was not in at the beginning and/or haven't advanced as fast as those early players.
Games where it seems like you get hammered by someone hugely more powerful than you every couple of minutes do not strike me as fun. I have been told that if you keep playing and are a 'good sport' about constantly getting killed they will eventually get tired of it and leave you alone for awhile. I don't think so. I see no reason to put up with a few weeks of hazing just so I can play a game with some friends.
Pardus and Pocket Fort are, to me, some examples of games that allow almost enough PvP but don't haze beginners.
A number of groups, including TEO, will be keeping an eye on novice player regions in order to prevent early players from being victimized. If you have problems, seek us out, and we will make all reasonable attempts to help drive away those who would prey upon you. We won't require membership, and I believe many other EE companies would be willing to do the same without requiring you to join them.
It is my hopes that such efforts will not be needed given the game's design and incentives, but we are preparing for the event that players will need to step in to make the game feel less hostile and to welcome the new entrants.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your making the assassination mechanic, which requires you to be evil... but you dont want assassins in the game? Or is it you dont want assassins who assassinate people in the game?
Assassination contracts taken out in the event of Wars, Feuds, Raids, etc... are likely to provide no reputation loss. It is not a desire for Assassins to be striking travelling merchants to take their loot.
The focus was PVP, all else came second.
This is precisely where you are missing the point of PFO. The goal in PFO is not to PvP. The goal is to control territory, build settlements, establish trade empires, master a craft, explore the world, delve into dungeons, etc...
PvP is a tool used to accomplish a good many of them, particularly the early ones.
...
A number of groups, including TEO, will be keeping an eye on novice player regions in order to prevent early players from being victimized. If you have problems, seek us out, and we will make all reasonable attempts to help drive away those who would prey upon you. We won't require membership, and I believe many other EE companies would be willing to do the same without requiring you to join them.
It is my hopes that such efforts will not be needed given the game's design and incentives, but we are preparing for the event that players will need to step in to make the game feel less hostile and to welcome the new entrants.
Sounds reasonable. I've read about some people saying they actively plan to make 'PvP orgs' whose only function is just to kill as many as possible as quickly as possible.
I hope your plans work out well and am looking forward to giving it a try.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Your making the assassination mechanic, which requires you to be evil... but you dont want assassins in the game? Or is it you dont want assassins who assassinate people in the game?
Assassination contracts taken out in the event of Wars, Feuds, Raids, etc... are likely to provide no reputation loss. It is not a desire for Assassins to be striking travelling merchants to take their loot.
The focus was PVP, all else came second.
This is precisely where you are missing the point of PFO. The goal in PFO is not to PvP. The goal is to control territory, build settlements, establish trade empires, master a craft, explore the world, delve into dungeons, etc...
PvP is a tool used to accomplish a good many of them, particularly the early ones.
Assassination contracts will be limited from my understanding...
PVP is the basis of settlements...
The kickstarter talked alot about PVP, if it is not the intent of the game then I have no idea what game I will be playing.
The kickstarter said: Open World Sandbox PVP game
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Goblin Squad Member
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PvP in PFO is clearly being used in a broad sense: both a martial defender who fights directly in PvP combat, and the dedicated swordsmith who supplies the finest weapons to her settlement are both engaged in PvP.
PFO has been explicitly clear from day 1 that PvP DOES NOT equal RPK.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Games where it seems like you get hammered by someone hugely more powerful than you every couple of minutes do not strike me as fun. I have been told that if you keep playing and are a 'good sport' about constantly getting killed they will eventually get tired of it and leave you alone for awhile. I don't think so. I see no reason to put up with a few weeks of hazing just so I can play a game with some friends.
Agreed. When I talk of people that need killing I'm talking of people who would otherwise hide behind "I'm not flagged so you can't attack me" while engaging in questionable tactics or near-abusive gameplay.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The kickstarter said: Open World Sandbox PVP game
Very early on, Ryan highlighted a post from Andius that included this, among other highlights:
4. More Than A Gankfest- Unlike other Open World PVP MMO's currently on the market, Pathfinder Online actively discourages meaningless PVP. A meaningful alignment system that actually offers mechanical advantages to lawful and good aligned organizations, and a functional bounty system that allows the player to choose which players and organizations can collect the bounties they set discourages random and meaningless killing. Beyond this, the admins are taking a hard stance against 'griefing', in which players specifically seek to ruin the experience of other players, often through using game mechanics in ways that weren't intended. Griefing in PFO can be a bannable offence.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Funny... the only mention of the term PvP is under a heading that says in bold letters... Not Another Gank Fest. You may want to go give it another read.
The Goblinworks website, about Pathfinder Online also lacks the PvP term.
There is going to be lots of PvP. It is a PvP-oriented game. That is how we are going to get a lot of stuff done in the game. But the PvP is the Means not the Ends.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PvP in PFO is clearly being used in a broad sense: both a martial defender who fights directly in PvP combat, and the dedicated swordsmith who supplies the finest weapons to her settlement are both engaged in PvP.
PFO has been explicitly clear from day 1 that PvP DOES NOT equal RPK.
Settlement warfare
faction warfareraiding
SAD's
Assassinations
Bounty Hunting
I have enough to keep me busy that the Devs are coding... Is that something Ryan Dancey wants in his game...
I want that answer, because if this stuff is being coded but it isnt really wanted in game I need to know... Im not going to play in a game Im not wanted in... Its no fun for me and no fun for the DM (Ryan)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Funny... the only mention of the term PvP is under a heading that says in bold letters... Not Another Gank Fest. You may want to go give it another read.
The Goblinworks website, about Pathfinder Online also lacks the PvP term.
There is going to be lots of PvP. It is a PvP-oriented game. That is how we are going to get a lot of stuff done in the game. But the PvP is the Means not the Ends.
I said I wanted PVP, I said nothing about Gankfest... To gank is to hit one person or group with overwhelming force...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here is my play style, and you can tell me DIRECTLY if you want me in the game. Please answer this directly... I will tell you what I did in Eve. Also tell me what you think my alignment will be...
Small gang roams, we would roam around low sec and 0.0 looking for enemies and anyone else we came across. Some we would kill, all enemies we would kill... Including taking on larger gangs whenever we saw them... the most fun
You are describing actions that will quickly make you low rep CE.
Here's my wishlist / predictions for the playstyle you describe:
There is a place for that playstyle in PFO. That place will be on the fringes of organized society. You'll be able to find a fight whenever you want, and will be a threat to small groups of gatherers or merchants. Occasionally you might catch someone unprepared or taking too big of a risk, and win a good haul of loot, but most of the time you'll be not much more than a nuisance. Eventually, some lawful settlement will lay claim to the territory you inhabit, and drive you out, and you'll find a new wilderness area to roam.
This playstyle will have little lasting impact on the game world or the larger territorial conflicts, but will provide danger and enjoyment to those who venture out to the wilds.
You'll have a hard time getting access to the training and equipment you want. Few settlements will welcome your presence, and those that do will only provide services at a cost. When your money runs out, so will your welcome.
You'll constantly struggle to get enough profit from your killing to maintain your equipment, and usually won't be able to afford the top tier gear.
If you have any goals that extend beyond petty brawling, and scraping out an existence, the best way to achieve them will be to ally with a larger settlement. This alliance will force you to abide by that settlement's laws and network of partners. Their list of "blue players" and "don't target these guys because they are trading partners" will quickly cramp your kill everyone style, and to maintain the alliance you'll find yourself acting more LE than CE.
(see the alliance announcement between Unnamed Company and Pax for an example of this process).
You'll either moderate your behavior to participate in the larger territory control game, or you'll return to being the spice that adds excitement to trips into the wilderness.
/end wishful thinking
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Goblin Squad Member
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The point was the lack of PvP mentioned. Personally, I feel the kickstarter hid the amount of PvP expected in the game. I was completely taken by surprise by the PvP focus AFTER I had decided to back. But I took a step back, took a deep breath and decided to walk along as it played out.
1) It was my fault for not researching outside the Kickstarter page. I would have discovered this if I had visited Paizo forums.
2) I have come to peace that the game is more PvP-centric than I would have ever liked. I am swallowing my hesitation and wariness and giving the game a chance. Given my own assumptions, I am not surprised that others came to bad assumptions on the opposite side.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here is my play style, and you can tell me DIRECTLY if you want me in the game. Please answer this directly... I will tell you what I did in Eve. Also tell me what you think my alignment will be...
Small gang roams, we would roam around low sec and 0.0 looking for enemies and anyone else we came across. Some we would kill, all enemies we would kill... Including taking on larger gangs whenever we saw them... the most fun
You are describing actions that will quickly make you low rep CE.
Here's my wishlist / predictions for the playstyle you describe:
There is a place for that playstyle in PFO. That place will be on the fringes of organized society. You'll be able to find a fight whenever you want, and will be a threat to small groups of gatherers or merchants. Occasionally you might catch someone unprepared or taking too big of a risk, and win a good haul of loot, but most of the time you'll be not much more than a nuisance. Eventually, some lawful settlement will lay claim to the territory you inhabit, and drive you out, and you'll find a new wilderness area to roam.
This playstyle will have little lasting impact on the game world or the larger territorial conflicts, but will provide danger and enjoyment to those who venture out to the wilds.
You'll have a hard time getting access to the training and equipment you want. Few settlements will welcome your presence, and those that do will only provide services at a cost. When your money runs out, so will your welcome.
You'll constantly struggle to get enough profit from your killing to maintain your equipment, and usually won't be able to afford the top tier gear.
If you have any goals that extend beyond petty brawling, and scraping out an existence, the best way to achieve them will be to ally with a larger settlement. This alliance will force you to abide by that settlement's laws and network of partners. Their list of "blue players" and "don't target these guys because they are trading partners"...
I don't know. This might be a little too close to how REAL societies might work. ;)
I know some people here want so desperatly for PFO not have the same culture as the average Open World PVP MMO, but it will. Shortly after the release of OE, the MMO players will outnumber the EE (more TT RPG centric players or the more Theme Park MMO players)and the gamed will become your typical sandbox, Open World PVP MMO.
I think that is a very true statement. I also think it's a sad one.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that is a very true statement. I also think it's a sad one.I know some people here want so desperatly for PFO not have the same culture as the average Open World PVP MMO, but it will. Shortly after the release of OE, the MMO players will outnumber the EE (more TT RPG centric players or the more Theme Park MMO players)and the gamed will become your typical sandbox, Open World PVP MMO.
Don't punt on 1st down, dude
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that is a very true statement. I also think it's a sad one.I know some people here want so desperatly for PFO not have the same culture as the average Open World PVP MMO, but it will. Shortly after the release of OE, the MMO players will outnumber the EE (more TT RPG centric players or the more Theme Park MMO players)and the gamed will become your typical sandbox, Open World PVP MMO.
The only hope of the TT RPG-centric players and others who do not want the same culture outlined is to recruit as many of our friends to join OE as possible. I am pretty sure a lot of us know folks who would love to play a finished game but are not much up for putting down money before they can actually play.
Realistically, though. Ryan's point was very accurate about establishing the desired culture out of the gate. EE Players have strong ability to steer the starting culture. Whether it gets washed away with OE or not is all a matter of how successful the opening is. A steady increase will allow the culture to propagate through the newcomers. A sudden flood will wash away whatever culture had been established.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You are describing actions that will quickly make you low rep CE.Here is my play style, and you can tell me DIRECTLY if you want me in the game. Please answer this directly... I will tell you what I did in Eve. Also tell me what you think my alignment will be...
Small gang roams, we would roam around low sec and 0.0 looking for enemies and anyone else we came across. Some we would kill, all enemies we would kill... Including taking on larger gangs whenever we saw them... the most fun
Yeah, I would expect that answer and most of the other answers I have received from players.
I dont care what your answers are. None of you want to pvp anyway... so here we are. You want PVPers to be gimped into the ground.
I want all play styles, whether PVE or PVP to be on the same playing ground.
I would expect that I will stay high rep, and be LE... And still be able to PVP most of my play time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I want all play styles, whether PVE or PVP to be on the same playing ground.
You're allowed to want that. We also have Ryan's statement, earlier in this thread, "I don't want all play styles in the game. There's a wide range of play styles I just don't want."; it seems that point may be settled.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I want all play styles, whether PVE or PVP to be on the same playing ground.
These are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but they frequently tend to work out that way. PvP can ruin the PvErs experience and protection of PvErs from PvP can ruin the PvPers experience.
PFO is favoring the PvPer in the current work-up, but it is throwing the PvE crowd a bone with some softer disincentives for just killing who you see because you saw them.
If you want to PvP all the time, there will be ample ability to do so. A NE alignment could allow for back and forth between LE play for straight up combat or assassination contracts and CN play for SADs/robbery.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem here is not that you ask for PvP and staying high rep and LE, it's that you ask for ANY PvP to be okay and for you to remain high rep and LE. You can't do the equivalent of "roaming around low sec and 0.0 looking for people to kill" without utilizing SAD's or taking rep/alignment hits. You can't operate NBSI in unclaimed territory without alignment and rep hits. I don't think there's an equivalent to gate camping here, but if there were I'd be willing to bet that that would incur alignment and rep hits.
There are, however, other forms of PvP that Goblinworks is looking to encourage you to participate in. These types of PvP focus less on just playing cat vs mouse in a wide, empty map, and instead on building, claiming, attacking and defending, forming alliances and breaking them, and all the other intrigue that comes with territory control in a limited space; this might have been included in your example of "large fleets", but I'm not sure what you meant by that.
There's still a large space for the cat vs mouse game that you seemed to have participated most in, in the form of SAD's and possibly in attacking caravans, but if you want to kill any and every target you have to accept that it will hurt your character in the long run unless the kills are few and far between, or part of the unpunished (AKA unsanctioned) PvP methods. That's simply one of the core design principles.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You can't operate NBSI in unclaimed territory without alignment and rep hits.
I think this ties to the war/feud/faction mechanics. If NBSI means attacking any non-ally, then it means means taking alignment and rep hits. If NRDS means attacking only war, feud, criminal (including trespassers), and other hostiles, it means those types of PvP that don't take the hits.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Small gang roams, we would roam around low sec and 0.0 looking for enemies and anyone else we came across. Some we would kill, all enemies we would kill... Including taking on larger gangs whenever we saw them... the most fun
Did you play that way because that was the best way to encounter other players that you could attack without consequences, because it got you the most net ISK of combat actions, or because you enjoyed ganking people?
If you just want to fight other players without consequences, become a mercenary company and offer your services to groups already at war: You then get the location of a high-denstity concentration of combatants that you can fight without penalty. If you want to make as much coin fighting as possible, banditry seems ideal. If your primary end goal is to make other players have a bad day, then expect to spend a lot of time whining on third-party forums about your ban.
You know what, any disadvantage I might get for enjoying PvP I think will be compensated by the fact that I can destroy the "advantaged" care bears quickly and efficiently anyways.
There's no way to prevent this without completely removing PvP, or punishing it to the point where it's no longer viable for its intended uses. If other people want to learn to fight and enjoy PvP as well that's a win for me.
i hope that all effort towards weakening a playstyle really brings all the ramdom carebears complainers to at least try the game, because this safrifice is mainly for them.
i hope that all effort towards weakening a playstyle really brings all the ramdom carebears complainers to at least try the game, because this safrifice is mainly for them.
Yes, hopefully they'll be drawn to the game, like moths to a flame.
i hope that all effort towards weakening a playstyle really brings all the ramdom carebears complainers to at least try the game, because this safrifice is mainly for them.Yes, hopefully they'll be drawn to the game, like moths to a flame.
lol, true, hopefully they wont see the flame of a candle as a giant furnace.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think there's an equivalent to gate camping here...
I've frequently gotten the feeling that Ryan's got a large whiteboard somewhere with a list of all the things he either thinks or knows have driven people to leave EVE, and he's carefully putting features into PFO to address those points.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Anyone who wants PvP can go raid an outpost. If they don't send defenders, you get loot, if they do send defenders you get a fight. They never move so you always know where to hit, and you can easily select your targets based on organization, potential profits, or likelyhood of defenders.
I'll submit I consider roaming gankers to be much lower on the PvPer food chain than raiders because raiding has a higher chance of profit but only if you are well organized and able to deal with defenders who almost certainly are as well. True PvPers are getting catered to quite nicely.
PVEers are concerned that a certain type of PvPer will ruin the PFO experience.
i hope that all effort towards weakening a playstyle really brings all the ramdom carebears complainers to at least try the game, because this safrifice is mainly for them.
I cannot imagine why we would have that worry....
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Goblin Squad Member
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Anyone who wants PvP can go raid an outpost. If they don't send defenders, you get loot, if they do send defenders you get a fight. They never move so you always know where to hit, and you can easily select your targets based on organization, potential profits, or likelyhood of defenders.
And if I understand Tork and Cheney correctly: if it's considered a criminal act by the locals, you will get a criminal flag and a chaos hit. If you can escape with your criminal flag, the settlement takes a corruption hit.
I do think that outposts will also be major targets in feuds - they're easier to find than a company and the outpost won't log off.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I dont care what your answers are. None of you want to pvp anyway... so here we are. You want PVPers to be gimped into the ground.I want all play styles, whether PVE or PVP to be on the same playing ground.
I would expect that I will stay high rep, and be LE... And still be able to PVP most of my play time.
You keep using "PvP" when you're describing "RPK." We need to swap out the correct words for your posts to be accurate. So...
"You want RPKers to be gimped into the ground." Yes, you got it finally--you cracked the case!
"I want all play styles, whether PVP or RPK to be on the same playing ground." No doubt you do want that. You're likely to be bitterly disappointed :)
"I would expect that I will stay high rep, and be LE... And still be able to RPK most of my play time." No doubt you do. You're likely to be bitterly disappointed :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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And if I understand Tork and Cheney correctly: if it's considered a criminal act by the locals, you will get a criminal flag and a chaos hit. If you can escape with your criminal flag, the settlement takes a corruption hit.
I do think that outposts will also be major targets in feuds - they're easier to find than a company and the outpost won't log off.
Well depends on the player then. I'm personally very willing to be labeled as a criminal or chaotic because of a raid against a non-war target. I think lawful-good will be a very hard role to play for anyone not wishing to be seriously straight-jacketed in terms of PvP.
Personally I'm going to raid any group that kills or robs Brighthaven members, but I don't care to feud every last one if them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think lawful-good will be a very hard role to play for anyone not wishing to be seriously straight-jacketed in terms of PvP.
Personally I'm going to raid any group that kills or robs Brighthaven members, but I don't care to feud every last one if them.
I imagine that lawfuls can fill a lot of roles. Regulars in your military companies for starters, even if a little too straight-laced for irregular work. And every L or N guard or enforcer on your POIs and Outposts frees up a chaotic to go burn out somebody else's peasants. :)