Medium sized character riding a medium sized mount...?

[The Aging Trumpet]

Can a Medium sized character riding a medium sized mount?

For example can a medium sized dwarf ride a medium sized pony ?
Note. A trained war pony can carry the weight , dpending on gear dwarf carry.

If so , can the dwarf do so without - ride checks ?

In beastiary:
War ponies are ponies that have been trained for combat with the Handle Animal skill and that have the advanced simple template. Due to their smaller size than horses they are better suited to halflings, gnomes, and dwarves.

But dwarf is medium sized. Can another medium sized characters also ride ? Say a human?

[Nox Aeterna]

CRB page 162:

"Horse: A horse is suitable as a mount for a human, dwarf,
elf, half-elf, or half-orc. A pony is smaller than a horse and
is a suitable mount for a gnome or half ling.
A combat-trained horse can be ridden into combat
without danger. See the Handle Animal skill for a list of
tricks known by horses and ponies with combat training"

And the answer is:

The thing you mount must be larger than you.

Will see if i can find the right entry ...

[The Aging Trumpet]

It defines whats suitable as a mount , not that the mount you ride must be larger then you.

So a medium sized mount say a pony is then classified as an unsuitable mount for a medium sized character.

From rules:
If you attempt to ride a creature that is ill suited as a mount, you take a –5 penalty on your Ride checks.

So the human can ride the pony but with minus 5.
(as long as the pony is strong enough, ref encumbrance rules)

Is my logic flawed ? What do You think?

[Nox Aeterna]

Well , could not find the rule where you cant do it ...

Only in the eidolon entry it is clearly written from what i could find:

Mount (Ex)

An eidolon is properly skilled and formed to serve as a combat-trained mount. The eidolon must be at least one size category larger than its rider. This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped and serpentine base forms.

When we think a dwarf and a pony it is not SO weird , but... a giant is large and so is a horse , do you see a giant riding a horse?

[Malle]

A heavy horse is a large quadruped with 20 strength, having a max load of 1200 lbs.

A pony is a medium quadruped with 13 strength, having a max load of 225 lbs.

A male Dwarf has a weight of 164 - 262 lbs, so the average dwarf (assuming little to no equipment) could conceivably be carried by a pony.

A hill giant weight approximately 1100 lbs, so a heavy horse could carry one.

The largest (physical) difference is noticeable in the height, with an average dwarf standing 4' 4" next to a pony's 3' - 4', while a giant stands 10' next to a horse's 5' - 6'

Anyway, note that in the rules for Ride there's Fast Mount/Dismount, stating:

Quote:

Fast Mount or Dismount: You can attempt to mount or dismount from a mount of up to one size category larger than yourself as a free action, provided that you still have a move action available that round. If you fail the Ride check, mounting or dismounting is a move action.

Note also that the Cavalier's Mount class feature states

Quote:

A cavalier gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid’s animal companion, using the cavalier’s level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.

A dog is a small animal, meaning that this implicitly defines at least one small animal (the dog) as a suitable mount for small creatures and explicitly says that the GM may approve other animals as suitable mounts. There's even a cavalier order which focuses on dog and wolf riding halflings (the Order of the Paw).

[buzzby]

The 4th level version of the dog and boar is actually medium.

Also, check out the post from Mike Brock about halfway down here.

[The Aging Trumpet]

Nox Aeterna wrote:

The eidolon must be at least one size category larger than its rider.

Yeah this specifies it for eidolon. Actually since they have to specify it like this, it is logical to assume its possible ride smaller mounts (not for the eidolon to choose but for others) Why else the need to specify this

Nox Aeterna wrote:

When we think a dwarf and a pony it is not SO weird , but... a giant is large and so is a horse , do you see a giant riding a horse?

A giant on a horse, if the horse can carry him weightwise and the giant has the rideskill...still abit weird.