Looking for Character Build Advice

[Darkholme]

So, A friend of mine will be starting up game in a few weeks, and from what I understand, the scope will be a 1-12 campaign or so.

He's said he'll be running us through modules, one of which will be the 3.5 Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. He's also said he intends to have us start Expedition to Castle Ravenloft before we're the suggested level on the back, and that we should go nuts and use whatever sources we want; he's giving us free reign.

That said, I'm looking for suggestions on character builds. Here are the things I'd like to accomplish:
1. Effective Build, that starts being effective early. I don't want to need to be super careful until level 8, that's too far off.
2. Options. I don't want to be locked into Stand and Full Attack. I want other options, and I want those other options to not be a total waste of time.

As mentioned, he's fine with any source (that includes 3.5 stuff, if someone has a really good suggestion that happens to be from 3.5). Presumably that includes 3pp stuff as well. If the build is too ridiculous he may change his mind, but I want to be a highly awesome guy.

While I'm looking for suggestions, I do have a few ideas that could be fun:
Synthesist -> I played one of these before, and it was fun turning into what was basicallly an Ogre-Mage, but I'm not sure how they play at the lower levels. If effective, I wouldn't mind a Breath of Fire type character. If there was a sort of combatty synthesist that could be neat, not sure if there are any archetypes that allow for that sort of thing though.
Archer -> Some kind of archer build could be very fun, particularly a mobile one, but maybe one with spells would work well too.
Some kind of Summon Monster fiend, who dumps conjured allies all over the field could be fun.

I'm willing to go to some degrees of broken here, as well, but I don't want to be a one trick pony, only useful if some weird exploit works.

Any pointers?

[The Artaxerxes]

Then synthesist may be your best option. If you're going into a module at lower than suggested level, you can't be weak. You'll always have many options as any kind of summoner.

[Krodjin]

Playing an Archer would violate your second rule. But, if you want to play an Archer that stops at level 12, you only have 2 options;

1) Zen Archer
2) Ranger

No other class is worth it because waiting until end game to get Improved Precise Shot won't work in a "dungeon" type environment.

So, between the choices above the Zen Archer gives you more ability to customize. The Ranger has to spend EVERY feat on Archery, the Zen Archer gets just about everything as a class ability and the only archery feat you need us Deadly Aim.

[master_marshmallow]

Paladin Archers destroy the game. A halfling Divine Hunter Paladin will do you wonders.
To elaborate: halflings get +2 DEX/ +2 CHA, which is exactly what you need for an archer paladin.

Paladin smites bypass all damage reduction, meaning all of your arrows not only don't need to be made of special materials, but unlike other archers you don't need to waste feats on Cluster Shots and its prereqs.

Divine Hunter gives you Precise Shot for free at lvl 1 in exchange for your heavy armor proficiency, which you won't miss with a high DEX.

Archery is very strong in pathfinder, with feats like Deadly Aim, and the fact that it's much easier to get off full round attacks because you don't have to move you can get some serious damage going.

[XMorsX]

Are you aware of the 3.5 PrCs Incatatrix and Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil? They were considered some of the (if not THE) most powerful PrCs for wizards. Check this build and suggestion written by Biffoniacus_Furiou in giantitp forums. End result is a superbuffed wizard featuring a permanent Antimagic Field destroying everything with negative lvls. His defences are also beyond godlike if you know what you are doing. As every wizard, he is more powerful at highter lvls, that being said though a conjurer wizard is very useful from lvl one, and keeps getting stronger through the whole game. Battlefield control spells at early lvls are making or breaking the encounters and you have an IMMEDIATE action teleport 4 times per day. Not bad at all.

Gray Elf or Fire Elf , Martial Wizard (Conjurer) 3/ Master Specialist 2/ Incantatrix 5/ IotSV 2 starting out. Max IotSV and then get more Incantatrix. If the game goes epic you just want to take Epic Incantatrix, Google can track it down for you.

Prohibited schools are Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy. I wouldn't use the Focused Specialist variant (CM) as you don't really want a fourth prohibited school. Use the Abrupt Jaunt ACF (PH2) and the Elf Wizard 3 racial substitution level (RotW). Subtract 3,000 gp from your starting funds and include in your backstory that you were trapped in the Otyugh Hole detailed in Complete Scoundrel for long enough to gain Iron Will without spending a feat on it. Take two flaws : Weak-Willed and Noncombatant. Take two traits : Passionate and Slow.

Feats should be Improved Initiative (Wizard 1 bonus), Spell Focus: Conjuration (1), Extend Spell (flaw), Spell Focus: Abjuration (flaw), Item Familiar (3), Skill Focus: Spellcraft (Master Specialist 1 bonus), Persistent Spell (Incantatrix 1 bonus), Obtain Familiar (CA, 6), Fell Drain Spell (LM, Incantatrix 4 bonus), Greater Spell Focus: Abjuration (9), and Extraordinary Spell Aim (CV, 12). Future feats should include Quicken Spell and maybe Chain Spell (CA).

Your familiar via Obtain Familiar is a Hummingbird, it uses the stats fora Thrush in the DMG and it gives a +4 bonus to Initiative, it's detailed in Dragon magazine 323. Your Elf Wizard 3 substitution level doubles that bonus, so it will give you +8 initiative instead.

You should start out Middle Age, put all three of your level up points into Int, and start with Int 18. Str, Wis, and Cha are your dump stats, you want a decent Dex and as high a Con score as possible.

Your Item Familiar should start as a Circlet of Intellect +2, for which you pay the full price of 4,000 gp. You can then upgrade it to be a Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC) with a +6 Enhancement bonus to Intelligence, for a cost of 23,500 gp and 1,880 XP. Keep in mind that the Item Familiar gives you a 10% bonus to XP, so you can use Permanency on Arcane Sight, Tongues, See Invisibility, and Read Magic and still start with more XP than the rest of your party. You should always invest enough skill points into your Item Familiar for it to grant a bonus to Spellcraft equal to your max ranks, which considering your Int 30, +3 for Skill Focus and a +2 Synergy bonus, you'll be able to use Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect to add Persistent Spell to your current highest level spells by taking ten on the check at any given level. You should wear a scarf or bandanna on your head over your circlet, so opponents will have neither line of sight nor line of effect and cannot sunder, disarm, or slight of hand it. An item familiar is an intelligent item, which is considered a construct, and constructs remain functional in antimagic and dead magic areas and cannot be dispelled or disjoined like normal magic items, so there should be almost no risk of it getting lost or destroyed.

You can use Cooperative Metamagic and Metamagic Effect to add Persistent Spell to your buffs. Some may say that Cooperative Metamagic can't be used on your own spells due to the types of actions it takes, but action types only exist in combat during initiative so as long as you're not in combat you can take as long as you want doing it and it works fine. I'm sure there's a complete list of persistable buffs online, but a few must-have choices are as follows: Swift Expeditious Retreat, Shield, Swift Fly, Displacement, Magic Circle against Evil, Ray Deflection, Greater Invisibility, and Dragonsight. You should also include Antimagic Field among your persistent spells, and use Extraordinary Spell Aim to exclude yourself and your party members and familiar/companions from its effect. Per Rules Compendium an AMF does not block line of effect for spells or magic effects, so everyone can still be hit by spells from outside the AMF as though it wasn't there. However, any opponents within 10 ft. of you won't be able to cast or use supernatural or spell-like abilities, and they won't have any spell buffs or magic items active, so it should be well worth it. Other all-day buffs should include Heart of Air/Water/Earth/Fire (CM), Greater/Superior Resistance depending on what level spell slot you want to spend, Greater Mage Armor or even Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) if you're good-aligned, Greater Magic Weapon on your party members' weapons, etc. Note that you can use a (Lesser) Metamagic Rod of Extend on most of those, so the hour/level buffs last 24 hours and the 24 hour buffs can be continually active on two characters for one spell slot each day. Later on Mind Blank is absolutely necessary. You can also use Greater Shadow Evocation to mimic Contingency and have something like Ironguard on it.

Do the Shrink Item Tin Foil Hat trick to avoid opponents' AMFs. The Google should help you figure that one out.

Other items should definitely include a Necklace of Adaptation, preferably with an Enhancement bonus to Constitution added on, a Ring of Enduring Arcana (CM), a Ring of Freedom of Movement, a Third Eye: Clarity (MIC), and metamagic rods.

After you've buffed yourself each day, and shared all those buffs with your hummingbird familiar, you should use your remaining uses of Metamagic Effect and Cooperative Metamagic on as many Fell Drain Cloud of Knives (PH2) spells as possible, and share each of those with your familiar as well. Every round, you and your familiar will each be able to fire that many daggers without any effort at all, and each dagger that damages an opponent will deal a negative level. Note that due to your ESA AMF your equipment and spells will be excluded from the area of the AMF. Also keep in mind that opponents standing in the AMF will have their equipment rendered nonmagical, so even when their weapons are striking you they won't be magical weapons at the time and something like Ironguard or Starmantle (BoED) should protect you.

Use Spellcraft every time an opponent casts a spell, it doesn't take any action to do and you can look up what the spell does before you decide what to react with, because that's knowledge your character will have. Your Ray Deflection spell will automatically block any ranged touch attacks, your Greater Invisibility should prevent you from being targeted by most attacks and spells, your Displacement will help you avoid attacks from opponents who can see invis, you can fly all day long, summoned creatures and nongood extraplanar creatures will be kept at bay by your Magic Circle, and your IotSV Veils can be used to stop anything else that gets thrown at you. Against opponents who have obvious magical abilities (Beholders, Dragons, anyone with a spell component pouch or divine focus) you should move in to get them in your AMF as quickly as possible, and probably use a spell like Web or Black Tentacles to trap them in it while your daggers obliterate them. Don't forget you can use the Circlet of Rapid Casting for a swift-action Web or Glitterdust when necessary.

Everything that is mentioned can be found on the internet, with more or less subtle ways. I do have found them. A good site to start digging.

[XMorsX]

The above and a Planar Shepard druid (using the 3.5 druid base class though, this is why I am not insisting in that) can be really ridiculously powerful characters.

[The black raven]

For an archer of death, I would advise 6 levels of Ranger (the spell-less one from Marc Radle is especially good with its stealth attack and all its additional talents and feats) with a mount for his Animal Companion.

Bodyguard archetype for the AC and Lookout feat for both.

Then 5 levels in Paladin for the good reasons posted above. The Shining Knight archetype is nice for your mount. Getting your GM to agree its combining with Oathbound (Oath of Wrath) is even better.

Remember to buy a Golembane Scarab for those annoying Neutral constructs with DR.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

I'm not sure the synthesist summoner will work very well at lower levels. They don't get lots of spells and you will probably have lots of enemies with DR or incorporeal subtype. Meaning you will have a hard time affecting them very much.

I just got done GM'ing a different campaign. But it was levels 5-10 and very heavily undead and evil outsider. A paladin archer was absolutely wrecking the encounters. Often before the others in the party could effectively take action. Human, Half-orc, Halfling, or Aasimar would work well.

Your 3rd choice of summoning creatures could again be less effective than you are expecting since many of the summoned creatures have no way to bypass DR or hit incorporeal opponents. However, you might look at the Fetchling, Shadow Caller, Shadow Form evolution. It will allow your eidolon to hit incorporeal as normal.

I am playing in another undead heavy campaign. I am running a life oracle that is focused on blasting undead rather than healing. It is really not very optimized, but is still one of the 2 most effective characters in the party. Aasimar would be a better choice than my Human.

[CKorfmann]

I'm confused, are you using a Pathfinder build in a 3.5 setting? What level are you starting at? At any rate, here is the archer character I'm building which will end up being a Jack-of-all-trades who can still do decent damage with a bow.

Aasimar with the Archon varient (+2 WIS & CON). I subbed my spell-like ability for a roll on the chart and got lucky with +2 Init.

Zen Archer mostly with 2 levels of Serene Barbarian (changes Rage to Serenity which grants +2 DEX and WIS instead of STR and CON). 2nd level gives a rage power which I'm choosing Scent. Using Pheromone arrows grants players with scent ability +2 to att and dam on targets marked with these arrows. Extra good if you can get party members to somehow get Scent too. If the DM won't let you take this Barbarian class with a Monk class (though the Serene Barbarian fits thematically better with non-chaotic) Aasimar has a racial trait that allows you to take Monk levels as NG or N.

I haven't completely made up my mind yet, but I'm toying with both one level of Empyreal Sorcerer (spells use WIS instead of CHA) and or a few levels of Inquisitor. First level of Sorc can give you spells Gravity Bow and either Magic Weapon or Mage Armor, whichever you think you need. If you go Tattooed, you can get a familiar that adds +4 to Init. Inq 2 adds WIS to Init. Inq 3 gives you Solo Tactics/Teamwork Feats. Feat can be changed as a standard action. Lots of good ones to choose from like Target of Opportunity and Lookout. Inquisitor gives more spells and skills.

Every dip in another class delays your progress in the ZAM's flurry (with bow), but some of the abilities you gain might be worthwhile, especially for character flavor.

Skills - 14 INT gives me 6 skills per level. Infiltrator archtype and Conversion Inquisition will add WIS to Intimidate and double stack WIS for Diplomacy and Bluff (helps to be non-lawful monk). Monkey Style feat at around level 5 gives WIS to Acrobatics. Next Monkey tree feat adds WIS to Climb. Could eventually have 9 skills keyed off WIS. Character could replace rogue as skill monkey.

Traits - Wisdom in the Flesh (WIS to Disable Device), Magical Knack (+2 to CL, Enlightend Warrior (Aaimar trait allows Monk to be NG, 3rd trait from drawback), Drawback - Mark of Slavery.

Stats - WIS is most important in the long run, DEX is most important in the first few levels. STR and CON should be med as STR helps comp bow and CON gives extra rounds of Serenity (rage). CHA and INT can be dumped, but I never dump INT if I can help it. My 20 point buy with the same character is 14/14/14/14/17/7.

I'd love to build this as gestalt sometime with full ZAM progression and maybe add some Ninja levels for sneak attack.

[The black raven]

CKorfmann wrote:

2nd level give a rage power which I'm choosing Scent. Using Pheromone arrows grants players with scent ability +2 to att and dam on targets marked with these arrows. Extra good if you can get party members to someone get Scent too.

This works very well with a Druid in the party.

Too bad that my GM ruled that the bonus from the pheromone arrows was melee weapons only (makes sense though) ;-)

[XMorsX]

For a less generally ridiculous 3.5 build but more specialized in undead slaying that is what you will do in this adventure, consider am undead-turning focused cleric, either a straight one or by augmenting it with PrCs, for example Cleric 6 /Radiant Servant of Pelor 5 /Sacred Exorcist 9. I copypaste some carnivore in brilliantgameologists forum.

houghts on Turning Undead

With any turning Build, the Equipment determines the effectiveness of the overall build. Unless you are using a VOP build.Confused

for just Turning ability.... look at the Ability itself and Plan on Maximizing the various aspects of it.

1)it is a Cha based Class Ability..... # of Turns/day, Turning Check, Turning Damage.... are all affected by Cha....anything that helps Cha Checks..will help Turning

2)it is based on Effective Cleric Levels..... the more cleric(Effective Cleric) levels you have the higher HD Undead you can Turn, and Destroy.

just focusing on the most effective things that contribute to these ...... will determine the build.

lets start with:

Skills: ...... If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion), you get a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead.... so, Obviously, you want to get at least 5 ranks in that, and it stacks, since it is Un-named

Attributes:
Clerics have Wisdom as a Primary Casting Attribute, but turning is Cha based.... since the Min Wis needed is 19(to cast 9th lvl spells)... you can afford to Boost Cha as high as you can...... for a 32 point buy, try this:

10 Str
10 Dex
12 Con
12 Int
16 Wis
16 Cha

this gives great Wis and Cha, but you need to stay out of Melee combat... try to be a Ranged Support Character

Domain
domain choice also affect this abilty:
[indent]Glory (CDiv p139)Turn Undead with a +2 bonus on the Turning Check & +1d6 on the Turning Damage Check.

Sun (PH p188)‘Greater Turning’ – Make a normal turning action, but all effected Undead are Destroyed. This consumes one of the day’s “turns”. Usable once per day.
[/indent]

Spells:
there are several spells in the Spell Compendium, that directly affect Turning Undead:
[indent]
Light of Faith(Cleric 2)swift action, 1rnd/CL, holy symbol touched:
Sacred Bonus to Turning Check= 1/2 CL

Light of Wisdom(Cleric 3)swift action, 1rnd/CL, holy symbol touched:
+1 Effective Cleric Turning Level/3CL for Highest HD affected and Destroyed

Light of Purity(Cleric 4)swift action, 1rnd/CL, holy symbol touched:
+1d6 Turning Damage/ 4CL(max 5d6)

Light of Courage(Cleric 6)swift action, 1rnd/CL, holy symbol touched:
+1d8 Damage/2CL bonus damage to ALL Undead that you try to Turn, even if you dont Succeed

Consecrate(Cleric 2)Duration: 2 hours/level,No Save/No SR:
Each Charisma check made to turn undead within this area gains a +3 sacred bonus.

Hallow(Cleric 5)
:all Charisma checks made to turn undead gain a +4 sacred bonus,
[/indent]

Feats:

this has the most impact on turning, other than actual Cleric levels, or Effective Cleric levels.
[indent]
Disciple of the Sun[Divine] (CDiv p80)Ability to Turn Undead
If you spend two of your daily uses of ‘Turn Undead’ instead of one, the undead you turn are Destroyed.

Exalted Turning[Exalted] (BoED p42)Ability to Turn Undead
Any Undead you successfully Turn also takes 3d6 damage.

Empower Turning[General] (CDiv p81)Ability to Turn or Rebuke Undead
Multiple your Turning Damage (after adding in your Cleric level & your Charisma modifier) by 1.5 to determine the number of Undead HD you effect.

Extra Turning[General](PH p94)Ability to Turn or Rebuke creatures
Each time you take this feat, you gain an additional 4 uses per day of your Turning / Rebuking ability. If you have more than one such ability, you must choose which ability it adds to when you take the feat. You may take this feat multiple times.

Heighten Turning[General](LM p27)Ability to Turn or Rebuke Undead,
Charisma 13, Extra Turning
When you Turn or Rebuke Undead, you may choose a number no higher than your effective Cleric level.Add that number to your Turning Check, then subtract it from your Turning Damage roll.

Improved Turning[General] (PH p96)Ability to Turn or Rebuke creatures You may Turn or Rebuke creatures as if you were one level higher in the class that grants the ability.

Quicken Turning[Divine](CDiv p84)(LM p20)Ability to Turn or Rebuke Undead
You may make a Turn or Rebuke Undead attempt as Free Action. You may only make an attempt once per round.

Extra Turning[General](PH p94)Ability to Turn or Rebuke creatures
Each time you take this feat, you gain an additional 4 uses per day of your Turning / Rebuking ability. If you have more than one such ability, you must choose which ability it adds to when you take the feat.You may take this feat multiple times.

Divine Energy Focus (Ghostwalk) - treat as if +2 levels in your T/R class for purposes of destroying or commanding undead. And grants a +2 to Turning checks and Turning Damage rolls.

Faith in the Frost(Frostburn) ... add Cha bonus as Cold damage to any undead you turn

Choosen of the Deathless(races of Eberron)......+2 turn damage and check
[/indent]

now if you are a Num-Human(no bonus feat) ... then you get 7 Feats in normal Play for a 20th lvl character... so we will use that as a starting point.

say we decide that we want to focus Solely on Turning Undead to the exclusion of everything else.... so we want a +Cha race....lets use Hellborn(Spirit Aspect)(+2 Cha,-2 Con)

and to make things easier... we will use Cleric 20 for the Build

ok...like this:

Hellborn(Spirit Aspect)(+2 Cha,-2 Con)

Cleric 20.... Patron(Ehlonna,Pelor,Lathander,Horus-Re,
Domains:
Glory
Sun

32 point buy

10 Str
10 Dex
12 Con
12 Int
16 Wis
16 Cha

assume 3 level boosts go to Wisdom, and 2 level boosts go to Cha..... remember we are not counting items.

Feats:
1st lvl: Improved Turning
3rd lvl: Empower Turning
6th lvl: Extra Turning
9th lvl: Divine Energy Focus
12th lvl: Choosen of the Deathless
15th lvl: Quicken Turning
18th lvl: Disciple of the Sun

i dont feel like doing the math.... but this is quite nice, especially combined with the Spells from the Spell Compendium and PHB

Quick Review:
Undead Turning Builds:
Essential Feats:
Empower Turning.... turning damage x 1.5
Improved Turning........... +1 effective Cleric Level for all Turning aspects
Extra Turning...............+4 additional Turn Attempts

Good Feats:
Sun Devotion........ boost to weapon
Choosen of the Deathless......+2 turn damage and check
Quicken Turning.................. turn as Swift action
Divine Energy Focus.............+2 turn damage and check, and +2 lvls higher for destroy chance

after this ..... Equipment determines the Final Turning Strength of the Build

[Darkholme]

CKorfmann wrote:

I'm confused, are you using a Pathfinder build in a 3.5 setting? What level are you starting at?

Starting at 1.

We're playing in a pathfinder game, but some of the modules he will be using are 3.5 modules.

He intends to have us going into the module at a lower level than the book suggests.

If we want an option that's available in 3.5 but not in Pathfinder, he'll be open to taking the 3.5 option. So for instance, the 3.5 Druid build is out, the Incantatrix build may not be (but I would be combining it with a PF Wizard).

I can likely grab feats/spells from 3.5 as needed as well.

I'm now considering the Paladin Archer (particularly since I know it's at least partially a ravenloft game); that could be good.

-----

Wow. there are alot of varied and interesting looking builds in this thread thus far. Some of them may not work/might need to be adjusted, but all of them sound like options worthy of considering.

It will take me a while to go through them in more detail to choose one, but I see several already that look promising. Thanks Guys. :)

[CKorfmann]

Here is a PrC you may or may not be interested in. It is the Divine answer to the Arcane Archer. It is written by another user, but basically a straight conversion to Divine magic.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lu85?Sacred-Arrow-Divine-answer-of-the-Arcane- Archer#16

I also just noticed you mentioned being interested in a [i]mobile[i/] archer. I don't think it would get much more mobile than Monk/Barb. Six levels of Monk and a level of Barbarian would give you 60 ft.

[Darkholme]

CKorfmann wrote:

I also just noticed you mentioned being interested in a [i]mobile[i/] archer. I don't think it would get much more mobile than Monk/Barb. Six levels of Monk and a level of Barbarian would give you 60 ft.

Haha, I've built characters with more move distance than that (Synthesist Summoner, fly evolution several times), but that's not really what I meant when I said mobile. I meant "Still reasonably effective on turns when he moves."

The Sacred Arrow is neat, but the GM won't be allowuing any homebrewed options, just PF & 3.5. I might be able to slip in some 3PP options, but not unpublished options.

[Rerednaw]

3.5? Wow. Nine Swords. Never mind... :)

Did you mean a character that has a breath weapon?
For a do-it-yourselfer go with reborn dragonborn (heart) gnome dragonfire adept. On the fly energy substitution with a custom breath weapon (Su) at will.
Plus flying.
No worries about SR.
Good at level 1
Never stops getting better.
Very low gear dependency.
Great hit points. (racial bonus from gnome and dragonborn stack plus class has decent hit die) and Con is your main stat anyway...

But...if you wanna go Pathfinder, yah probably Zen Archer. I'm not terribly fond of the synthesist but that's a personal bias.