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My twice half dragon gelatinous cube nymph was ignored... I feel betrayed!
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My twice half dragon gelatinous cube nymph was ignored... I feel betrayed!
So... Its full half-dragon, full gelatinous cube, and full nymph? Maybe it just blew their minds to try and imagine it or how it came to be. It could be either a truly beautiful or horrifying sight and many places in between, dontcha' know.
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I feel a disturbance in the force...
As if thousands of voices cried out and were suddently silenced.
I guess they weren't core book only.
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Chris has access to a Death Star? o.O
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Isn't it possible to run the setting in a variety of ways and no one way is right?Of course, but that concept isn't where the tensions are arising from.
What these threads are really concerning themselves with is the divergence of views between groups, and what happens when Special Snowflake wants to roll into one of the 'other groups'.
Lumiere can play all the Steampunk Lolligoth characters in the world, no one cares, where the problems kick up is when one arrives at a different table and expects it to be business as usual. Not everyone is on board with this, we don't all favour the handwave, and we don't like it when people try change RAW as they see fit (to benefit themselves) in a game where 'the math' matters.
What all these arguments above are really slated at is shooting down the 'rationalisations' used by Snowflakes when they come across and don't get their way.
You can see they are being Sad Pandas when they put up lines like "GM's aren't able to cope with the challenge/advanced play/yada yada" - that's when we start pulling apart your idea and exposing it not as 'advanced' but as somewhere between 'twee' and 'juvenile' and almost always completely lifted from the latest anime of the day.
then clearly, you DO care.
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I think it's totally awesome that we have a hobby thats open to so many different levels and styles of play.
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My twice half dragon gelatinous cube nymph was ignored... I feel betrayed!So... Its full half-dragon, full gelatinous cube, and full nymph? Maybe it just blew their minds to try and imagine it or how it came to be. It could be either a truly beautiful or horrifying sight and many places in between, dontcha' know.
Maybe it's two-thirds dragon, like how Gilgamesh was two-thirds divine. :P
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And I think if you aren't adapting to the group in a group activity, you are the problem.
If you aren't looking around and trying to figure out how to fit in with everyone else, and you expect your wishes to be met, you are apparently expecting everyone else to adapt to you.
And pointing that out may make someone offended, but it doesn't mean it isn't true.
See, the first line of this one is far better, in my reading, than your previous post at making the point you wish to in a way that I can, emotionally, agree with.
"If you aren't adapting to the group in a group activity, you are the problem." is, in fact, accurate.
Your previous post lacked that context (to me) in the way you presented it.
The apparent disregard (I don't think you do, but it comes off that way in print) at the end of this post for others in the current group activity (discussing things on the public forum) seems to be exactly the sort of problem-activity you and I both agree isn't for the best: the kind that splits people and makes them unhappy at each other.
See, the thing is, I agree with your basic premise, as I understand it.
1) Pathfinder is supposed to be a Group Activity. Thus...
2) Find a thing that works within your group and go with that or don't play with that group.However, it's the way that it comes across that I have a problem with rather than the message.
Having watched you post (and others who know you in real life) on the boards, I can say that you're probably a really great guy in person. I disagree with you often, but you're still probably a great guy.
But that doesn't always come across in discussions like this.
To be clear, I'm not "blaming" you for anything here, so much as pointing out one reason why the discussions might become more hostile than anyone wants them to become.
I apologize if I come off as insulting. I'm really, really not trying to be. Rather, I'm trying to say, something more like,
"You know,...
What exactly are you trying to do here?
You obviously know exactly what Ciretose is talking about but yet you continue to try and make some kind of snark about it.
The way he handles his group does no wrong if it works for his group. How you handle it is really irrelevant at this point because you aren't in his group.
You don't need to tell Ciretose you find it offensive because you aren't a part of his group.
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Isn't it possible to run the setting in a variety of ways and no one way is right?
I always thought it was a base assumption planetouched and grippli and the like could walk around with relative ease. Relative being a key word. The idea that everyone grabs the pitchfork if you look different being a houserule.
What is it that makes people dump real world politics into these threads?I think it has something to do with personal worries and woes and possibly Godwin's Law.
I'm here to tell you you thought wrong.
There are rules for disguise and Knowledge checks for a reason. You don't get to describe your character in such a way that your race remains undetected. It's not all about how you look, it can be your mannerisms, how you move, how you speak, etc...
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What exactly are you trying to do here?Probably the same thing you are.
Yeah, but that's different don't you see?
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For a given definition of 'different'.
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Anyway, back to the topic. As I mentioned and was lost in the shuffle, my opinion (the way we play here at our table. Your mileage will vary, not valid in X place, etc etc) is that the world reacts to you. THIS DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN BADLY! Often you may draw attention in a positive light. You might even pick up a plot or two from being who you are.
This includes but is not limited to: race, sex, class, height, weight, what you do, what you say, nationality, clothing, and so on.
This is not bad. This is not a way to 'get' someone or subject them to some mental trauma. This is what is going on in the world; if there is a war and elven and fey creatures are being rounded up, your elfiness might come up. If you travel to the exotic realm of KillAllMen, your sex might play into things. If you travel to the city of Give-All-Exotic-Races-Treasure, I'm sure those hoods will come off and people would be playing up their differences instead of claiming that they are just the 27th descendant of the elemental-type and no one can tell.
As an aside, at our table (see disclaimer), if you are that far descended? You are a human. You do not get the bonuses for that race.
EDIT 5: deleted some stuff that may have been taken as personal sniping, which was not my intent, and edited the below.
If you feel I told you that your way of playing was wrong, ciretose, or that I was sniping at you, please tell me, and I'll be glad to apologize and try and rephrase what I was saying into something non-aggressive.
EDIT 3: I want to be clear, and I'm probably not being so, thus...
From what I know of ciretose, despite often disagreeing with him on these forums, I like him well enough. He seems like a nice guy.
My points were:
1) I agree with him on the nature of an individual adjusting to fit into a group activity for the general cohesive enjoyment of all.
2) Suggesting that the forums are also a group activity and thus...
> 2a) ... we all (including myself, where necessary) adjust ourselves as individuals to fit into a group activity for the general cohesive enjoyment of all, though...
> 2b)... this does not mean we have to agree on anything, much less everything or even a preponderance of things.
3) Not all groups handle everything in the same way, thus, ...
> 3a) ... however anyone handles their personal group is ultimately between them and their group, despite potentially being able to find like-minded people on the forums.
> 3b) An individual group would have a hard time to find a way for me to tell them, "you're doing it wrong" (though there are probably ways), thus,...
> 3c) ... whatever an individual group is doing is likely okay... for that individual group, which...
> 3d) ... is not the same as saying it's okay for any given player, who may - or may not - join or leave said group based on play styles.
EDIT:
Not sure why it was deleted, so I'll say it again...
If you don't see the irony of saying someone is being inflexible by not allowing the one concept you are willing to play...
... is about the exact same as the irony of of saying someone is being inflexible by demanding to play one concept.
We agree! :D
(Seriously, though, I'm not disagreeing with you.)
EDIT 2 (and 6*): I also missed whatever storm came around here, so, if I need it, I'd be glad to get the short version from someone.
Non-deletion-thing if it's public, whatever if it's a PM.
If I don't need it to get the current conversation, then I don't care. :)
EDIT 4: Jessica, based on your post below, let me know if I need to self-edit at some point within the next half-hour. I'll be glad to do so.
* EDIT 6: How did I read that so many times and not see what was wrong there. Dyslexiaaaaaaaaaaaa~! *shakes fist, takes personal shots at Dyslexia and talks badly about it behind its back on the forums*
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Ok, folks, let's get back to the topic at hand and stop with the personal sniping.
Yes ma'am.
On topic:
If I have this idea of a gargantuan-sized half-jellied-donut, half-razzleberry pie chocolate moose with twenty levels in "Delicious" class with a full 10 mythic tiers of "Actually Healthy, but it doesn't taste like it", I think I should be allowed to eat it, regardless of the local menu.
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EDIT 5: deleted some stuff that may have been taken as personal sniping, which was not my intent, and edited the below.
If you feel I told you that your way of playing was wrong, ciretose, or that I was sniping at you, please tell me, and I'll be glad to apologize and try and rephrase what I was saying into something non-aggressive.
EDIT 3: I want to be clear, and I'm probably not being so, thus...
From what I know of ciretose, despite often disagreeing with him on these forums, I like him well enough. He seems like a nice guy.
My points were:
1) I agree with him on the nature of an individual adjusting to fit into a group activity for the general cohesive enjoyment of all.
2) Suggesting that the forums are also a group activity and thus...
> 2a) ... we all (including myself, where necessary) adjust ourselves as individuals to fit into a group activity for the general cohesive enjoyment of all, though...
> 2b)... this does not mean we have to agree on anything, much less everything or even a preponderance of things.3) Not all groups handle everything in the same way, thus, ...
> 3a) ... however anyone handles their personal group is ultimately between them and their group, despite potentially being able to find like-minded people on the forums.
> 3b) An individual group would have a hard time to find a way for me to tell them, "you're doing it wrong" (though there are probably ways), thus,...
> 3c) ... whatever an individual group is doing is likely okay... for that individual group, which...
> 3d) ... is not the same as saying it's okay for any given player, who may - or may not - join or leave said group based on play styles.EDIT:
Not sure why it was deleted, so I'll say it again...
If you don't see the irony of saying someone is being inflexible by not allowing the one concept you are willing to play...
... is about the exact same as the irony of of saying someone is being inflexible by demanding to play one
...
Not allowing one concept while leaving almost all others open is not the equivalent of insisting on only one concept and closing off all others,
Not allowing one concept while leaving almost all others open is not the equivalent of insisting on only one concept and closing off all others,
You are correct. I didn't state otherwise.
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If I am going to run a game and I have a certain race and class limit then I can be as inflexible as I want if I have enough players who are fine with that.
As long as I can convince enough players to play in my game then my job is done. If there are one or two who don't, then it's down to them whether they join or not.
Yes ma'am.
On topic:
If I have this idea of a gargantuan-sized half-jellied-donut, half-razzleberry pie chocolate moose with twenty levels in "Delicious" class with a full 10 mythic tiers of "Actually Healthy, but it doesn't taste like it", I think I should be allowed to eat it, regardless of the local menu.
But the diners at your table who might be gluten free afficionado's might not wish to taste it with you.
If I am going to run a game and I have a certain race and class limit then I can be as inflexible as I want if I have enough players who are fine with that.
As long as I can convince enough players to play in my game then my job is done. If there are one or two who don't, then it's down to them whether they join or not.
For once, I agree with you when it comes to this topic.
However, I'd like to make it clear that I always inform my players in advance of any noteworthy restrictions I have in place for a given campaign world so there wouldn't be situations like the one I ended up in with my former DM happening in my table. Unlike that guy, I'm willing to try out different styles every once in a while instead of making the same campaign world with the same restrictions time and again. Also, please stop with the food comparisons. They're not applicable to these situations (they're too simple), and you're all making me hungry (my lunch break is two hours away) for no good reason.