Well, I really want to believe your interpretation is right, since my eidolon has taken all the Overrunning feats, which would mean she could charge pounce overrun and if successful then i would get an Aoo from my foe when he's knocked prone.
Nevertheless, I think most Gms won't let that fly sadly...
Which is absurd, for three reasons:
* the overrun action can be combined with a charge action per the core rules.* the overrun feats are legal content
* You have invested a significant amount of resources to gain the extra attack (opportunity cost).
Is this balanced? No more so than casters vs martials. Home campaigns can change the rules as the DM sees fit, and if your DM feels the combination above is undesirable, (s)he can simply rule that companions are ineligible to take that feat combination (no, you cannot pick door number 2, please pick another).
The thing is, I'm playing PFS, so I can't talk in advance to the GM to see if he would accept such a thing...
The thing is, I'm playing PFS, so I can't talk in advance to the GM to see if he would accept such a thing...
I fail to see how the GM could deny it legitimately, since it does not violate any official rules. If they try, elevate it to the event coordinator, and point out that you are not violating any rules (you aren't even bending any rules, you just super-specialized the build resources of your companion). It is my understanding that a PFS GM can only arbitrate grey areas in the rules, which is not the case here.
I think your explanation is correct.
However, I still see it as being a grey area, which is why I'd rather not create useless controversies I won't be able to back up without lengthy discussions.
I don't think that your above post can solve this controversy by itself, even if I want it to.
Another problem I see is, how would movement after your charge work? If you have charged 30 feet with the charge at double speed, (with 30ft base speed), how far can you move after the overrun attempt? Could you get out of your foe's reach?
Maybe if I can get a clearer picture in my head of how this works I may be able to explain it to my PFS GMs.
It is quite simple: You can only move twice your base speed as a full round action (unless you run). Charge sets the limit to twice your base movement, and overrun is silent, therefore defers to the base rule. A base speed of 30' means you can move at most 60' total.
After you resolve the charge, the only movement restriction of overrun (RAW) is that you must pass through the target. So, you need at least a 10' distance to charge, plus another 5'+ to move through the creature (depending on size), and you can move in any direction after you enter the creature's space, up to twice your base speed (counting the movement used in the charge).
Keep in mind, Charge+Overrun is a hybrid action, but one explicitly allowed by the rules.
to start charge through doesnt work with elephant stomp at all you basically cannot do both as one forces you to stop moving in front of your target and you no longer have the abimity to move through their square.
as for charge and overrun look its not some super attack that gives you three different things think about that from a rules paradigm which of tbese makes sense.
double move and an over run attemp and an attack
or double move and an over run attemp
ther is alot of action economy going on in that first line that is totally unprecedented in the rules.
look overrun is poorly written but you can follow intent by realizing anything more complicated needs rules excepions to justify them.
for the record charge + overrun needs 20 feet of space on a humanoid opponent 10 to charge 5 to enter the space and 5 to exit.
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I agree that charge through + elephant stomp essentially forces you to abandon the original charge + overrun (if you stomp the mook), but that is precisely because of the wording of elephant stomp. You could wait and stomp the charge target if the overrun check meets the requirements. This works because ES replaces the normal overrun results.
As for the charge+overrun combo being a "super move", as you mention the requirements are fairly steep, combining quite a few feats to be able to pull off consistently.
Core feats:
Power Attack (Str 13) / Improved/Greater Overrun
Ignore difficult terrain:
Nimble Moves (Dex 13) / Acrobatic Steps (Dex 15)
Ignore mook:
Charge Through
Important but not critical:
Combat Reflexes (Dex 14+ to be useful)
Elephant Stomp
to start charge through doesnt work with elephant stomp at all you basically cannot do both as one forces you to stop moving in front of your target and you no longer have the abimity to move through their square.
as for charge and overrun look its not some super attack that gives you three different things think about that from a rules paradigm which of tbese makes sense.
double move and an over run attemp and an attack
or double move and an over run attempther is alot of action economy going on in that first line that is totally unprecedented in the rules.
[b]look overrun is poorly written but you can follow intent by realizing anything more complicated needs rules excepions to justify them.[b/]
for the record charge + overrun needs 20 feet of space on a humanoid opponent 10 to charge 5 to enter the space and 5 to exit.
Well put. Overrun is a big part of my mounted build, so I've looked at it a lot, and this is the most rules consistent approach I've been able to fathom. The bolded portion of your text expresses the razor I believe we should all be using when dealing with hairy rules wordings. It would nice for greater clarity, but I do believe it's workable.
I'm still hoping to get a FAQ on this ...
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I'm still hoping to get a FAQ on this ...
The devs have already explained that feat: your overrun exceeds by 5 or more means the target is prone, you stop, and you make an immediate natural or unarmed attack against the prone target... it's better than it sounds actually
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l0yn?Sargava-The-Lost-Colony-Elephant-Stomp-Fe at#5