Hi, i need some advice on making this character be really beneficial this is for a home-brew game and i feel like making a sniper for fun i decided to go with a halfing the stats that got rolled to use is 18,18,18,17,17,16 (this was rolled by the gm and used by all players)So to the idea we are starting at lvl 10 halfing rogue sniper arch type:
str 14
dex 22(26)
con 17
int 18
wis 18
cha 19
take the racial trait swift as shadows
lv 1 : feat, Stealthy
lv 2 : rogue talent, Camouflage
lv 3 : feat, point blank shot
lv 4 : rogue talent, snap shot
lv 5 : feat, Far Shot
lv 6 : rogue talent, Weapon training (heavy crossbow)
lv 7 : feat, Precise Shot
lv 8 : rogue talent combat trick (Vital Strike)
lv 9 : feat, alertness
lv 10: greater rogue talent, stealth sniper
max out mainly needed skills (perception and stealth)
items: Sniper Goggles, Cloak of elvan kind, seeking heavy crossbow +2, belt of incredible dexterity +4 and i can't think of anything else for
for armor that can support 8 to dex bonus other then silk since i cannot afford armor at the time nor do i know what talents i should get this is where i am stuck any advice would be useful.
Ty
Sniper can be fun, but it is in no way "really beneficial" for the team. The reason is the difficulty of achieving sneak attacks from range. You could do it if you go Ninja with Vanishing Trick, but then you would need a lot of Ki to be reliable, or with Dazzling Display -> Shatter Defences. The last one is better if someone on your team already has dazzling display so that you can sneak attack from the first round of combat.
i get what your saying but that doesn't help me in anyway
Ok then. See a sample build.
Halfling Weapon Master Fighter 4 / Sniper Rogue 16
1 Fighter Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2 Fighter Rapid Shot
3 Rogue Deadly Aim
4 Rogue Talent: Minor Magic (Read magic)
5 Rogue Arcane Strike
6 Rogue Talent: Major Magic (Gravity Bow)
7 Fighter Manyshot
8 Fighter Weapon Focus (Composite Longbow)
9 Rogue Snap Shot
10 Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Combat Reflexes
11 Rogue Improved Snap Shot
12 Rogue Talent: Snap Shot
13 Rogue Weapon Specialization (Composite Longbow)
14 Rogue Talent: Dispelling Attack
15 Rogue Point Blank Master
16 Rogue Talent: Familiar
17 Rogue Improved Familiar
18 Rogue Talent: Stealthy Sniper
19 Rogue Clustered Shot
20 Rogue Talent: Hard to Fool
Fighter lvls early so tha you take faster the essential archery feats and be less reliant to sneak attacks. With 4 lvls of weapon master you also take combat training and are eligible for Weap. SPec. and Point Blank Master. Minor Magic for Arcane Strike and Major Magic for Gravity Bow. As a result dispelling attack is a great pick and you can take an improved familiar that will be able to use UMD and cast on you invisibility or even greater invisibility for constant ranged sneak attacks.
With Snap Shot, Improved Snap SHot and Combat Reflexes you threaten anuone 10 feet around you, giving you potentialy of a lot of AoOs.
I woudl prefer to have weapon secialization and point blank master before than minor and major magic.
The extra damage from weapon specialization is more reliable than the one from gravity blow.
Nicos wrote: I woudl prefer to have weapon secialization and point blank master before than minor and major magic.
The extra damage from weapon specialization is more reliable than the one from gravity blow.
Don't forget Arcane Strike. You cannot take it without Minor Magic.
i want to focus using a crossbow over a bow since ihave a =2 to strangth and i can apply my dex to my damage with a crossbow and as long as i successfully stay hidden from sniping i can still get the sneak attack
Noolak wrote: i want to focus using a crossbow over a bow since ihave a =2 to strangth and i can apply my dex to my damage with a crossbow and as long as i successfully stay hidden from sniping i can still get the sneak attack I do not think there is a way to apply your dex to damage with crossbows.
Noolak wrote: i want to focus using a crossbow over a bow since ihave a =2 to strangth and i can apply my dex to my damage with a crossbow and as long as i successfully stay hidden from sniping i can still get the sneak attack You cannot stay hidden forever. Against serious opponents I doubt that you will stay hidden even for one turn. It can be done with crossbow but you will be even weaker. First of all though tell us how you intent to put Dex to damage.
If you want add dex to your ranged damage, then consider to take 1 level of pistolero/musket master and 3 levels of threcnh fighter.
Halfling Weapon Master Fighter 4 / Sniper Rogue 16
1 Fighter Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2 Fighter Rapid Reload
3 Rogue Rapid Shot
4 Rogue Talent: Combat Trick: Crossbow Mastery
5 Rogue Deadly Aim
6 Rogue Talent: Weapon Training: Weapon Focus (Heavy Crossbow)
7 Fighter Snap Shot
8 Fighter Weapon Specialization (Heavy Crossbow)
9 Rogue Combat Reflexes
10 Rogue Talent: Stealthy Sniper
11 Rogue Improved Snap Shot
12 Rogue Talent: Minor Magic (Read Magic)
13 Rogue Point Blank Master
14 Rogue Talent: Major Magic (Gravity bow)
15 Rogue Arcane Strike
16 Rogue Talent: Dispelling Attack
17 Rogue Clustered Shot
18 Rogue Talent: Familiar
19 Rogue Improved Familiar
20 Rogue Talent: Hard to Fool
Here is a build modified for heavy crossbows.
your right sorry there is no feat BUT there is the fighter archetype crossbowman which allows me to add half my dex mod "Deadshot (Ex): At 3rd level, when a crossbowman attacks with a crossbow as a readied action, he may add 1/2 his Dexterity bonus (minimum +1) on his damage roll. This
ability replaces armor training 1" i can use this to my advantage and ready a shot for if some one moves or attacks instead of just picking at a target if i am wrong please let me know cause if not i am reading it wrong. i can also add this feat Focused Shot so i can also add my int mod as well so i agree with you mors on taking those levels into fighter but the arch type crossbowman. and since if i do play my character right you take a -20 for sniping but with swift as shadows and stealthy sniper i will get a -0 for sniping and going stealth again after a shot also i talked to my gm and vital strike is a viable thing i can add in per sniping shot.
Bear in mind that by reading actions you miss on full attack opportunities. Anyway I guess it makes for an interesting build, hiding and coming out of the shadows for one big hit, only to hide again. I will see to it.
EDIT: Are you interested into playing a pure Crossbowman Fighter? For this style of play, the archetype gives excellent benefits (Dex to damage at lvl 11) and will result in a much stronger character than the Sniper rogue.
EDIT2: As I see it again, Crossbowman Fighter 11 / Sniper Rogue 9 will probably be your best bet. Dex to damage and always flat-footed (constant sneak attack) when you are reading actions. I strongly suggest that you start as Human though. The bonus feat is a big gain, but most importantly with Halfling you will have small weapon which means reduced damage from vital strike.
yeah that's what i was thinking because with sniping you can only make a single attack which also qualifies for vital strike and since i am going stealth again and on the account they do not spot me i can do yet another shot with sneak attack included that's how i want to make the character. also with sniper goggles as long as i can hit the target i can apply my sneak attack at any distances lets say i have distance on my crossbow and with far shot and accuracy every 2 range increments will ether do nothing or decrease my hit chance by 1. so atm my major issue is getting my perception skills up high enough to where i can spot some one long distance and then want to be able to keep hidden the whole time.
XMorsX wrote: Bear in mind that by reading actions you miss on full attack opportunities. Anyway I guess it makes for an interesting build, hiding and coming out of the shadows for one big hit, only to hide again. I will see to it.
EDIT: Are you interested into playing a pure Crossbowman Fighter? For this style of play, the archetype gives excellent benefits (Dex to damage at lvl 11) and will result in a much stronger character than the Sniper rogue.
the sniper is for distance and the extra damage from sneak attack.
Noolak wrote: XMorsX wrote: Bear in mind that by reading actions you miss on full attack opportunities. Anyway I guess it makes for an interesting build, hiding and coming out of the shadows for one big hit, only to hide again. I will see to it.
EDIT: Are you interested into playing a pure Crossbowman Fighter? For this style of play, the archetype gives excellent benefits (Dex to damage at lvl 11) and will result in a much stronger character than the Sniper rogue.
the sniper is for distance and the extra damage from sneak attack. Yep I know, see my second edit and tell me your opinion.
yeah i see what your saying but i wouldn't be able to get stealthy sniper then i can see getting the the improved deadshot tho so there denied there dex every shot no matter what or level 9 fighter for quick sniper as well.
Check this:
Human Crossbowman Fighter 11 / Sniper Rogue 9
STR 7
DEX 19 (+1 at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 lvls)
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 7
Traits: Reactionary, Magical Knack
1 Fighter Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Reload
2 Fighter Rapid Shot
3 Fighter Crossbow Mastery
4 Fighter Deadly Aim
5 Fighter Weapon Focus (Heavy Crossbow)
6 Fighter Vital Strike
7 Fighter Snap Shot
8 Fighter Combat Reflexes
9 Fighter Improved Snap Shot
10 Fighter Weapon Specialization (Heavy Crossbow)
11 Fighter Improved Vital Strike
12 Rogue
13 Rogue Point Blank Master, Talent: Ninja Trick: Deadly Range
14 Rogue
15 Rogue Arcane Strike, Talent: Minor Magic (Read magic)
16 Rogue
17 Rogue Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow), Talent: Major Magic (Gravity bow)
18 Rogue
19 Rogue Greater Vital Strike, Talent: Combat Trick: Greater Weapon Focus (Heavy Crossbow)
20 Rogue
Your attacks at 12th lvl at a readied action would be (before factoring magic items):
Attack: +11 (BAB) + 7 (from DEX) - 3 (from Deadly Aim) + 1 (P.B.S) +1 (Weapon Focus) = +17 against flatfooted AC
Damage: 3d10 (Improved Vital Strike) + 7 (from DEX) + 6 (Deadly Aim) +1d6 (Sneak attack) +1 (Point Blank Shot) + 1 (Weapon Spec.)= 3d10+1d6+15, average 35 damage
With Gravity Bow the dice becomes 1d12 and with Greater Vital Strike you roll 4 of them. Add to that 5d6 Sneak attack at 20th lvl. Happy rolling.
Have a plan for getting eaten, because that will happen to annoying archers.
(I.e., if you can't melee with a backup like weapon, you'll probably be screwed if your allies can't save your ass within two rounds.)
IMO, any character with this much min/maxed dexterity should budget two feats for TWF and Piranha Strike, and buy some Agile knives.
Sir Thugsalot wrote: Have a plan for getting eaten, because that will happen to annoying archers.
(I.e., if you can't melee with a backup like weapon, you'll probably be screwed if your allies can't save your ass within two rounds.)
IMO, any character with this much min/maxed dexterity should budget two feats for TWF and Piranha Strike, and buy some Agile knives.
At some point you take Point Blank Master, so the melee weapon becomes less of an issue. Until then you are too feat starved for taking feats other than for archery. At lower lvls you can try your luck with light weapons if you ever get grappled, at higher lvls you should have a Ring of Freedom of Movement. I would like to add weapon finesse somewhere there but I don't find space, every feat is important for a crossbow user.
XMorsX wrote: Sir Thugsalot wrote: Have a plan for getting eaten, because that will happen to annoying archers.
(I.e., if you can't melee with a backup like weapon, you'll probably be screwed if your allies can't save your ass within two rounds.)
IMO, any character with this much min/maxed dexterity should budget two feats for TWF and Piranha Strike, and buy some Agile knives.
At some point you take Point Blank Master, so the melee weapon becomes less of an issue. Until then you are too feat starved for taking feats other than for archery. At lower lvls you can try your luck with light weapons if you ever get grappled, at higher lvls you should have a Ring of Freedom of Movement. I would like to add weapon finesse somewhere there but I don't find space, every feat is important for a crossbow user. interesting you say that cause i play a fighter archer archetype in a different game and i destroy stuff also this isn't a solo based game your in a team and you can use that to your advantage while all them are going at it you focus on 2 things killing whats on you and get at a safe distance.
Point Blank Master does not let you use your two-handed ranged weapon while grappled or swallowed.
-- When I see a build prospectus with 100% of its feats devoted to one combat mechanic, I know that character will destroy encounters when granted his schtick, and quite possibly be a totally worthless albatross when denied it.
Sir Thugsalot wrote: Point Blank Master does not let you use your two-handed ranged weapon while grappled or swallowed.
-- When I see a build prospectus with 100% of its feats devoted to one combat mechanic, I know that character will destroy encounters when granted his schtick, and quite possibly be a totally worthless albatross when denied it.
Usually you are right, especially as far as archery is concearned. Now we are talking about a crossbowman that will fire at most of his career one shot per round. Also only his readied action attack will be decent, the attack of opportunities will be mediocre at best. You need all the feats just to make him decent at it and not totally suck. Grappling is indeed a problem but it should be solved with clever positioning and tactics and not by gimping him in his chosen fighting style. This is my opinion at least.
every class you make has it's pro's and it's con's yes getting destroyed at a grapple or swallowed will happen but that's at the risk of being able to do what i am made to do you also got to remember in order to be grappled or swallowed they have to first find me which is the point of the sniper hide and seek.
I have a couple of questions:
1) Why is your charisma so high? I don't see any charisma-based feats in your build. You might be better off putting the three 18s in Str (16), Dex (20), and Con. Put the 16 in Charisma for 18, and the 17s in Wisdom and Int. If you do keep the 19 Charisma, you might consider Ninja instead of Rogue for a ki pool and the same amount of sneak attack dice.
2) Do you get a stat boost at 4th and 8th level? If so, where did you put these?
3) Have you looked into Focused Shot, which lets you add your Int to damage on ranged attacks? The downside is that you only get one attack per round, but you'd get at least +3 additional damage. (If you want to do this, you can move the 18 from Con to Int for +4.)
4) Are you allowed to use Darkleaf Cloth armor? You can make leather armor from darkleaf cloth for +2/+8 Dex or studded leather for +3/+7 Dex.
Now a couple of suggestions:
A) If you do go with the 16 Str, you would be better off with rapid shot/many shot and a composite long bow: +3 damage from Str on multiple attacks is better than +4 from 1/2 Dex on readied attacks only. (Keep in mind that readied actions have to be triggered. You aren't just taking one shot a round: you can only take that shot when someone does the triggering action.) Also, if you get Adaptive on your bow (1000 gp enhancement), you can use Bull's Strength or other buffs to increase your damage. A level dip into barbarian would also let you buff your strength as a free action that would stack with Bull's Strength.
B) Since your armor choices are so limited, you might consider a few levels of monk. You'd get +3 (+4 if you keep the 18 wisdom) to your AC at level 1, fast movement at level 3, and a ki pool for additional attacks and extra AC at level 4.
C) I don't see many occasions where Far Shot will help you. I would take Deadly Aim instead.
If you're interested in any of these suggestions, I can work up a sample build for you.
Oh, a couple of other possible issues:
1) You don't have darkvision or low-light vision. You won't be able to see your targets much of the time, regardless of how high your perception is.
2) The Sniper's Goggles duplicate the effects of the rogue sniper archetype. Drop these and get Goggles of night for darkvision (for 12,000 gp) instead, and have 8L gp to spend on something else.
Gwen Smith wrote: I have a couple of questions:
1) Why is your charisma so high? I don't see any charisma-based feats in your build. You might be better off putting the three 18s in Str (16), Dex (20), and Con. Put the 16 in Charisma for 18, and the 17s in Wisdom and Int. If you do keep the 19 Charisma, you might consider Ninja instead of Rogue for a ki pool and the same amount of sneak attack dice.
2) Do you get a stat boost at 4th and 8th level? If so, where did you put these?
3) Have you looked into Focused Shot, which lets you add your Int to damage on ranged attacks? The downside is that you only get one attack per round, but you'd get at least +3 additional damage. (If you want to do this, you can move the 18 from Con to Int for +4.)
4) Are you allowed to use Darkleaf Cloth armor? You can make leather armor from darkleaf cloth for +2/+8 Dex or studded leather for +3/+7 Dex.
Now a couple of suggestions:
A) If you do go with the 16 Str, you would be better off with rapid shot/many shot and a composite long bow: +3 damage from Str on multiple attacks is better than +4 from 1/2 Dex on readied attacks only. (Keep in mind that readied actions have to be triggered. You aren't just taking one shot a round: you can only take that shot when someone does the triggering action.) Also, if you get Adaptive on your bow (1000 gp enhancement), you can use Bull's Strength or other buffs to increase your damage. A level dip into barbarian would also let you buff your strength as a free action that would stack with Bull's Strength.
B) Since your armor choices are so limited, you might consider a few levels of monk. You'd get +3 (+4 if you keep the 18 wisdom) to your AC at level 1, fast movement at level 3, and a ki pool for additional attacks and extra AC at level 4.
C) I don't see many occasions where Far Shot will help you. I would take Deadly Aim instead.
If you're interested in any of these suggestions, I can work up a sample build for you.
well the thing like i said at first it is a home brew game and i have the stats that we have to start with listed and i did put a 18 and a 18 into int and wisdom 17 into cha and the 16 into str also want the sniper goggles to be able to apply sneak attack at any distance not just the 90 on top there are ways to work around the low light/darkvision
Make a rogue2/fighter2/paladinX switch-hitter. Toss in Boon Companion for a full-strength mount.
01 pala1 [Smite Evil 1/day], Quick Draw
02 fight1 [Dragoon:(Mounted Combat,Skill Focus:Ride)]
03 rogu1 SA+1d6, Ride by Attack
04 pala2 [Divine Grace][Lay on Hands], CHA>20 (buy CHA headband for a 22)
05 rogu2 [Evasion][Finesse Rogue], Two Weapon Fighting
06 pala3 [Mercy]
07 pala4 [Channel 9/day], Piranha Strike
08 fight2 CON>18, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
09 pala5 [Mount(anything that flies)], Boon Companion
10 pala6 ...
Since you're starting at 10th, you could do the levels in any order.
How it works: you exploit the enemy's attempts to thwart archery and lance charging by switching to insane TWF offense -- when they were expecting you to be gimped after crowding you.
Equipment: Celestial Armor, Belt (DEX+4), Headband (CHA+4), +1/Agile shortswords (two), lance, Oathbow, Bracers of Falcon's Aim, Wand of Heroism.
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