hey guys
yet another noob question.
it says in the cr that pc's sell items at half price.
but under appraise it says that with a succesful roll u determine the value of the item...
so does that mean with a succesful appraise check u still only get halv an items wurth in gold?
if so whats the point in using that skill?
If you are trying to get better prices when buying or selling, diplomacy is the skill to use.
If you can get a shopkeepers attitude to friendly they may grant their npc boon of a 10% discount. This is up to the gm though
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Honestly this brings up the whole issue of, "Is appraise actually a worthwhile skill to even have in the game?"
How is appraise intended to funciton with buying a selling of items? Does it really do anything more than let you know what the value of the item is? Not according to the description. If you incorrectly estimate the value of an item does that mean you will pay more for it? Sell it for less? Both of these seem like punishments to players, where wealth is effectively power in this game. But these are possible consequences that make sense based on the skill.
In honesty the groups I've played with have always largely ignored the appraise skill and how it was supposed to interact with buying and selling (especially because it is very clear or well laid out). Besides, most people don't enjoy haggling over prices or worrying if they've just been ripped off buying and selling and it adds a lot of paper work to the game instead of assuming you buy items for listed price and sell for half price. Its also even worse when you realize that most classes don't have appraise as a class skill. And then many classes with a low amount of skills per level (I'm looking at you fighter) are going to be punished because they wanted to take perception and knowledge(dungeoneering) with his two measely skill points per level. Sure he could have someone else appraise the item for him, but then he has to trust that individual. This could interject party dissonance as players become suspicious of one lying to another.
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I think there are extended haggling rules in Ultimate Campaign, and that they involve Appraise (know value of object), Diplomacy (convince other party to give you a good deal), Sense Motive (to determine whether the seller thinks they're offering an honest price) and maybe Bluff (if you want to offer a dishonest price).
It certainly won't hurt your game to ignore the Appraise skill and just sell at half price. But if one or more of your characters is actively interested in using the skill, it can be fun. I wouldn't roll for every little thing the PCs sell, but hoards might have one or two interesting nonmagical art objects or pieces of jewelry a PC could appraise. If you agree to split the sale proceeds from appraised objects evenly you don't need to worry about whether you can trust the appraiser because there's no motivation to cheat.
Note that Appraise isn't always about avoiding being scammed - you could always find a rusty but masterwork dagger or genuine antique in a junk stall somewhere, or notice that the town you're in is selling furs or some other local resource at below their usual value.
You could also make it a plot point. Maybe someone has been selling jewelry made of low-value materials like tin and glass, but are passing it off as silver and gemstones, and an Appraise check will identify the false wares (and help the PCs find the culprit). Or an NPC offers the PCs a favour in exchange for help appraising the objects in his deceased grandmother's old chest.
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Good homebrewed uses of Appraise:
1. Use appraise checks when searching a room: have an item that some people would not notice the value of in some rooms in some dungeons. If the characters search that room, you can ask for an appraise check to notice that there is an antique or something of value there. Everyone will pick up gold and gems, but a character with appraise might notice a 700 year old ceremonial vase that is worth good money.
2. Use appraise checks to haggle. Make an appraise check when purchasing or selling rare equipment. DC 15, you get a 5% discount or increase in sale price, DC 20 10%. (limiting it to rare means that no one can purchase crafting materials in this way to make a profit from crafting items just by making and selling ad nauseum)
3. Use appraise to estimate the amount of money that another character might be carrying (fun usage for cutpurse rogues)
lord malkov@
these are rather a good ideas, thanks :)will defenitly br useing them.
Art in general, paintings, gems and juwelry can look valuable but in real they are worthless or the other way round they look worthless but are valable.
A small inconspicuous painting on the dungeon wall can be some kind of 'Picasso' and is 1000000gp worth. The expensive looking 900 pound statue is made by an ogre and is only 100gp worth.
Appraise can help and disencumbers the barbarian party mule :)
hey guys
yet another noob question.
it says in the cr that pc's sell items at half price.
but under appraise it says that with a succesful roll u determine the value of the item...
so does that mean with a succesful appraise check u still only get halv an items wurth in gold?
if so whats the point in using that skill?
Per the CRB, Appraise can also can determine if something is magic.
In the game I am in, the GM has let me know that something has value X in general, but if I can find the right buyer, it can have value X+Y. Without Appraise, I would not know to look for that buyer with Gather Information (Diplomacy).
/cevah
PS: I am old school. I find chat-speak ill suited to message boards and email because they are hard to read if you don't use chat. For example, I read "cr" as "CR (Challenge Rating)", a frequent abbreviation on these boards. Took me a bit to realize you meant "CRB (Core Rule Book)". *I* would appreciate the use of regular words. Thanks.
so heres what i think ill do:
appraise check dc 10 to determine value of a mundane item
dc 15 for weapons and armor
dc 20 for rare and the magical detection.
if you succed your check you know the half price value.
succed with 1-5 , you get a plus 5%boon.6-10 , 10%boon ,and so on.
and on failure you get the negative equivelent.
how do you think this house rule will work?
Depends on your group of course, but it's easily abused to get huge amounts of cash.
Get your modifier to +16 (at level 1 a wizard can have +14) and you can craft for a profit easily.
IF your group isn't into optimizing or abusing then there probably won't be huge issues, except it will be the second or third most highly valued skill (after perception, at about the same place as acrobatics).
But consider a 3rd level wizard:
3 ranks + 3 class + 3 skill focus + 5 intelligence + 2 masterwork tools = +16 appraise.
Craft a scroll for 75 gp. Take 10 on the appraise check, you beat the DC by 6 and sell the item for 82.5 gp. Rinse, repeat.
Now this is just 7.5 gp per day, but that is with very minimal investment (a single feat and some of the many skill ranks wizards get). Taking Craft Wondrous Items would allow for a gain of 100 gp per day, which is pretty much in a campaign such as kingmaker, and as levels increase the modifier would too.
At 10th level we're looking at something like 10 ranks + 3 class + 6 skill focus + 8 intelligence +2 masterwork tools = +29.
And this is not considering all the feats/traits etc that affect crafting.
So, easily abusable without any rules-wrangling, but if you don't worry about that it might work.
Though honestly, I much stronger recommend Lord Malkov's approach - now and then drop some pretty precious item that doesn't look like it, and just let the appraiser get some extra treasure that way. It feels less mechanical, makes more sense, is dependant on you as a DM and thus much harder to abuse.
A good guideline could be to give out extra treasure worth maybe about 5-10% of the WBL assuming the character keeps the skill maxed.
Appraise to spot magical items.
Appraise to get values of gems (once anyone has a 5+ skill they can automatically know gem values on a Take-10).
Appraise to make sure merchants aren't ripping you off (not every merchant is fair and Golarion has no "Truth in Advertising" laws that I know of).
Appraise to know the value of heavy loot (you might leave behind heavy cheap loot and take with you the heavy valuable loot).
Appraise to help with negotiations - who says Appraise can only be used on items? If a NPC wants you to perform some task but he doesn't offer a fair compensation, an Appraise check could reveal that the guy is not paying enough for the task he's requesting (even a Sense Motive would not help if the guy actually thinks - incorrectly - it's a fair price).