Looking at crafting magic weapons specifically, here's what PRD says.
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met. A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any melee or ranged special weapon abilities.
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the weapon, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the weapon triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the weapon's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
At the time of creation, the creator must decide if the weapon glows or not as a side-effect of the magic imbued within it. This decision does not affect the price or the creation time, but once the item is finished, the decision is binding.
Creating magic double-headed weapons is treated as creating two weapons when determining cost, time, XP, and special abilities.
Creating some weapons may entail other prerequisites beyond or other than spellcasting. See the individual descriptions for details.
Crafting a magic weapon requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price.
Item Creation Feat Required: Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
Skill Used in Creation: Spellcraft, Craft (bows) (for magic bows and arrows), or Craft (weapons) (for all other weapons).
My first question regards this bit:
The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
1. Does this mean that a 9th level caster can add enhancements or abilities to any weapon with an enhancement and/or ability bonus up to +3, or that they can only add up to that many enhancements to a weapon at a time?
For example: Suppose I'm a 9th level caster with a +3 Keen Flaming Burst rapier. Can I further enchant that rapier, or does it already have as many enchantments as I could give it?
2. Can I somehow borrow spells from an ally, if I don't know them?
For example: If I'm a bard who wants to put a flaming enchantment on his weapon, is there some way I can borrow a necessary spell from an ally wizard, sorcerer, druid, or cleric, or can I simply not apply that enchantment because there's no way for me to learn it myself? I recall reading about people using spells from scrolls for enchanting with spells they can't know or prepare, but I don't know if that's actually possible, or how it works, since u need to spend that spell every day spent crafting the item.
3. Why does a player need "a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools?" I guess the heat source kind of makes sense, but if I already have the masterwork weapon I'm enchanting, why do I need weapon crafting tools? Do I have to take the weapon apart to enchant it or something? How do I know which tools I need? It's not that big of a deal, but it seems a bit odd to me.
4. I recall people saying that it's possible to have a +1 weapon with +9 worth of abilities, but wouldn't that require the enchanter to have a level 27 caster level? Shouldn't the maximum abilities on one weapon be +6 (Caster level 18 requirement) excluding epic levels?
5. Is there any way to remove enchantments or abilities already on an item?
What are the rules regarding characters who can craft magic weapons through an Arcane Bond?
A wizard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded object as if he has the required item creation feats and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, a wizard with a bonded dagger must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the dagger. The magic properties of a bonded object, including any magic abilities added to the object, only function for the wizard who owns it. If a bonded object's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the object reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.
6. Can a character with Arcane Bond only add abilities, or can they add enchantment bonuses too?
7. How does the cost of these abilities effect price to enchant, and the value of the bonded weapon, should it be sold, considering it only applies to the person it's bound to?
8. If the bonded weapon is lost or stolen, can the new owner add new abilities to it, and if so, how does that effect the price and number of bonuses on the weapon, should the original owner retrieve it?
9. For the same reason, can these extra abilities exceed the usual maximum +10?
For example: Suppose I'm a level 15 wizard with an arcane bond to a +5 dagger. Through my Arcane bond, I add abilities to the dagger to make it a +5 Vorpal dagger. This would cost 75k gold, and take 75 days to finish, correct?
Now suppose I give the dagger to my Cleric friend (who also can craft magic weapons) and ask him to give it the holy ability. To him it's merely a +5 dagger, so can he give it the holy ability or not, and if so, does it cost him as much as a +6 ability (11k) or a +11 ability (21k)?
If he manages to give it the Holy ability, do I now effectively have a +5 Vorpal Keen dagger (total +11)? I never died or replaced the weapon, so the Vorpal ability shouldn't have gone away, right?
Help me shine some light on this.
Thanks
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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1. 9th level caster +3 Keen Flaming Burst rapier
2. Can I somehow borrow spells from an ally, if I don't know them?
3. Why does a player need "a heat source"
4. possible to have a +1 weapon with +9 worth of abilities
5. remove enchantments or abilities already on an item?
6. Arcane Bond only abilities, or enchantment bonuses too?
7. cost of these abilities effect price to enchant
8. can the new owner add new abilities to it
9. can these extra abilities exceed the usual maximum +10?
1) +3 with special properties totaling +3 are good at CL 9.
2: Core p 461 allows cooperation. Scrolls get expensive as it costs a scroll each day of work.3) You never watched a movie where they forged magic weapons? This is a fluff rule. So we (the web) can't help you. Go work this out with your GM.
4) Yes, with CL 27.
5: No
6: Both but it is only usable by you.
7: Cost the same as if you had the Feats and made an item normally. You just can't get the cost back when you sell the masterwork item.
8: Sure, but is indistinguishable from a masterwork version.
9: Stop! ;-) Most GM's should just strip the power when you hand it to the Cleric. Otherwise you get way outside the RAW and totally beyond sight of RAI.
1) First, you meet the Caster Level requirement for enhancement bonuses and special properties separately. Note: Most special properties do not have a caster level requirement.
Second, you do not need to have a Caster Level of 9 to create a +3 sword. For any pre-requisite you do not meet the DC to craft the item increases by +5.
Example: At level 5 you can create a +2 Longsword (Caster level 6). The DC is 5+6(CL) +5(does not meet pre-requisite) = DC 16.
FAQ that states you can ignore the Caster Level requirements by increasing the DC by +5
FAQ that states CL is not a Caster Level requirement unless listed in the Requirements section (after the crafting feat)
4) The CL of the +1 weapon with +9 abilities is CL3 (for +1) or the ability with the highest CL.
Caster Level for Weapons: The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description. For an item with only an enhancement bonus and no other abilities, the caster level is three times the enhancement bonus.
If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
Example:
A +3 Human Bane Spell Storing Vorpal Longsword has a CL of:+3 = 9
Human Bane = 8
Spell Storing = 12
Vorpal = 18
The weapon's final CL is 18 (the highest).
However, the prerequisites are:
+3 = Caster Level 9
Human Bane = Summon Monster I (no Caster Level prerequisite)
Spell Storing = Caster Level 12
Vorpal = Circle of Death and Keen Edge (no Caster Level prerequisite)
Total Prerequisites (in addition to Craft Magic Arms and Armor): Caster Level 12, Summon Monster I, Circle of Death, and Keen Edge.
Lets say the creator of this weapon has a Caster Level of 6, a spellcraft skill of 25, and only has access to Summon Monster I.
The starting DC is 5+18 = 23. After that the DC goes up by 5 for each pre-requisite not met. Caster Level 12 is not met, Circle of Death is not met, and Keen Edge is not met.
Final DC: 38. The creator would need to roll a 13 to succeed.
If he can have someone supply either Circle of Death or Keen Edge he can auto-succeed by taking 10 (the DC drops to 33).
- Gauss
@Gauss
Thanks. That helps a lot.
As a level 10 Arcane Duelist with Arcane Bond I can enchant my bonded weapon to have up to +3 enhancement, and any abilities I can afford, adding +5 for every requirement I don't meet.
A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell. Using metamagic feats, a caster can place spells in items at a higher level than normal.
Does lowering the caster level like this lower the DC to craft it?
How can I have someone else supply the required spell?
Do they have to spend the spell every day that is spent crafting the item, just as I would?
Do they have to spend all that time with me while I'm working on the item?
Can they still assist me if it's my Arcane Bonded weapon?
If I'm in the process of enchanting a weapon, can I still use it as usual when I'm not working on it?
Of course, I wouldn't benefit from the enchantment until I've completed it.
sk8r_dan_man,
As a level 10 Arcane Duelist with Arcane Bond you can enchant your bonded weapon to have up to a +5 enhancement (Caster Level 15). However, since you wont meet the caster level requirement it will add +5 to the DC.
Yes, lowering the CL lowers the DC to craft it. The DC to craft is 5+Caster Level +requirements you dont meet +accelerated crafting (if accelerating it). Note: lowering the CL generally requires GM approval because it would be a non-standard item.
Supplying required spell: The rules on this are vague but the common interpretation is that they only need to "cast" it for you once per day. They can do whatever else they want that day.
Yes, the spell must be supplied every day.
The rules do not state they have to stay with you. They state that they just supply the spell. The common interpretation is they can do other things after providing the spell.
Supplying a spell is not 'assisting you' in the mechanical sense. It is just supplying the spell. Yes, they can supply the spell for your Arcane Bonded Weapon. The rules for crafting are not making a distinction for that.
The rules are silent on whether you can use it if it is in mid-enchantment. I have always gone with "yes" because there is not a rule against it.
- Gauss
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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lowering the CL generally requires GM approval because it would be a non-standard item.
The rules do not state they have to stay with you. They state that they just supply the spell. The common interpretation is they can do other things after providing the spell.
I have always gone with "yes" because there is not a rule against it.
You can't go below the minimum CL of any spell listed.
The crafter must spend 8 hours a day and the spell must be prepared but is otherwise unusable for the day. You are allowed to allow others to cooperate. You are reading "cooperate" as "come over here for one round and cast that spell" but the rules don't ask for a casting. They ask for an 8 hour commitment where you "by the rules" do not cast the spell. So this is where you are using permissive stance. If it doesn't explicitly say you can't you are allowing it even if it is clearly not what the rules are saying.
There is no rule saying you can do other things with item. Again, you are taking a permissive stance.
James,
I never said you could go below the minimum CL of any spell listed. I said lowering the CL lowers the DC to craft it but that would require GM approval.
Example: Pearl of Power 1 is CL 17 but it can be lowered to CL 1.
Yes, the crafter must spend 8hrs a day and the spell must be prepared. It is consumed. I tried to indicate this by using quotation marks. I was using the quotation marks to indicate expended (which is a concept people who are new may not understand).
Regarding the 8hr commitment, it isn't an 8 hour commitment. It is a 4 hour commitment. Yes, the rules are silent on when/where that spell is expended. I stated this and then stated a common interpretation. So, how am I using a permissive stance by stating the rules are silent?
Regarding mid-enchantment, I again stated the rules are silent. Then I stated how I run it. I did not state how the rules read because the rules are silent.
Please try not to quote me out of context.
- Gauss
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I never said you could go below the minimum CL
It is a 4 hour commitment
rules are silent on when/where that spell is expended
Ok, for starters I was quick and didn't explain that I used your post to follow up for others on some things you didn't directly address. So some of your valid complain to me replying to your post isn't directed at your. Sorry.
I mentioned the "can't go below min" to make it clear to others.
I mentioned the 8 hours because crafting is 8 hours. I'm not sure where you are getting the 4 hour. Please enlighten me.
The wording used in the book to me is clear it isn't expended until the end, but needs to be available the duration of the crafting. It also needs to be available each day. If you get it from someone else, they can't just come over and cast it and go eat. They need to "cooperate" during the crafting. So they need to be there 8 hours also (or 4 if I some how got the time wrong above.)
Apology accepted. :)
Crafting has a maximum of 8 hours but the that is composed of two 4 hour blocks.
The caster can work for up to 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by working longer each day, but the days need not be consecutive, and the caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit. If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours’ worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night. If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).
What it says about spells:
These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the armor triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the armor’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster’s currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
All of the sections have the same "The act of..." rule as the armor section.
The bolded section states that the act of working on the armor triggers the prepared spells. Because "the act of working" would be the start of the crafting for the day the spell triggers right at the start.
What is not said is if the person providing the spell has to be present for the entire time. But because the spell is triggered at the start the answer would seem to be a "no".
- Gauss
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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4 hour
answer would seem to be a "no".
Thanks, I missed the 4 hour deal.
We differ entirely on the cooperating person not needing to be there the whole time.
Without a line saying "they just come over to cast the spell and you finish it up" then they need to be there with you for the whole 8 hour (double 4 hour chunks.)
James, as per Ultimate Campaign it appears you are now correct regarding the second person needing to stick around for the entire process.
If you need another character to supply one of an item’s requirements (such as if you’re a wizard creating an item with a divine spell), both you and the other character must be present for the entire duration of the crafting process.
Prior to seeing that there was nothing to indicate that the second person had to be there for the entire process but I am happy to point out the new text that clarifies it to be as you understood it.
- Gauss