| Rapanuii |
I am quite aware that Powerful Build isn't in the Pathfinder world, but from playing 3.5 and using the ability my group has allowed it in Pathfinder. Simply adjust the +4 size bonus to +1 for CMB/CMD, and everything else pretty much fits.
Now that I got that out of the way, here is my question, which I never thought of in 3.5.
If a medium sized creature has the Powerful Build feature, which allows them to hold a medium sized greatsword in one hand (I believe with no penalty) and a large sized greatsword two-handed, then could they hold a Medium Two-handed reach weapon in one hand and apply reach still?
I am playing a Fighter that has a efficent quiver, and want something so I can grab a longspear or something of the sorts and make CMB attacks at a distance from not investing in the feats. Also, I am right to assume with an efficient quiver I may as a free action (just like grabbing ammunition) take out a long spear and if I please put it away as a free action too?
| Eridan |
Inappropriately sized weapons and reach are a gray RAW area. Same example without 'Powerful-Build' is a medium creature that uses a small two handed reach weapon in one hand.
Is it legal by RAW? Following the Inappropriately Sized Weapons RAW i would say yes but on my table you lose the reach ability if you use such a weapon. I think that should be RAW.
Drawing is a free action but putting away is a move equivalent action.
| Bizbag |
Reach is a quality of the weapon, not its size. The Phalanx Soldier archetype provides a precedent - if you are able to wield a reach weapon in one hand, it still has reach.
But as BBT said, it's not official PF, so it's up to the GM to decide if this feat is too powerful, and I think it is, to be honest - it's comparable to +3.5 damage at most basic (going from longsword to greatsword) with other benefits besides, and available at a lower level than Weapon Specialization.
| Ughbash |
In 3.5 threatened area was a funciton of the WIELDER size not the Weapon Size.
So if you were using a reach weapon and had powerful build, you still only threatened in the area that you would threaten for that weapon. Now usually with a Long spear you threatened 2 when using it with 2 hands, but did NOT threaten the adjacent areas. With Powerful build you could use it with one hand but it would still threaten only the same reach 2 (not the reach 3,4 that a large person could threaten using a long spear sized for them). If you used a LARGE long spear 2 handed you would STILL only have a reach of 2.
From races of stone the description of powerful build.
A goliath can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without a penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size.
| Barry Armstrong |
Mechanically, this would seem to work. However, I think DM intervention is required here. Powerful build, coming in from 3.5 where reach is calculated differently, needs to be altered to fit ALL pathfinder mechanics, not just combat crunch numbers such as size bonus or CMB/CMD. The reach quality must be examined for functionality.
A longspear still can't be wielded properly just because you have large muscles. Try holding a very long stick with one hand at the very end of the grip, and hold your arm perpendicular to the ground. Does the tip start falling towards the ground? Of course it does. It will regardless of your build size. If you choke up on the weapon to wield it properly, you will lose reach.
Unless you have specific training in using that kind of weapon, such as the Phalanx Soldier does, your effective reach may be compromised.
So it's up to your DM as to whether that weapon retains or loses its' reach property or not.
| StreamOfTheSky |
The argument isn't much different from the common one I've seen made that a medium person can wield a small sized longspear in one hand, pay the inappropriate size penalty on attack rolls, and have a 1-handed reach weapon.
I don't have a problem with it, myself. All the other styles of combat, whether you choose to use that other hand for TWF, for a shield, or nothing at all -- are underpowered compared to 2H fighting anyway.
But a lot of people go nuts about it.
Disclaimer: I've never attempted to do it myself and don't think I ever will; please don't lob insults at me about it as if I have a stake in it.
| Kelazan |
About one-handed reach weapon : The phalanx soldier fighter archetype seam being able to use polearm of his size one-handed without penalty, but at the restriction of wielding a shield.
Phalanx Fighting (Ex)
At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon.
This ability replaces Armor Training 1.
I think that powerful build shouldn't allow to emulate this ability. Personally, I houseruled that ability such powerful build makes that large weapon are appropriates for your size, but not medium ones. So, you can wield a large long sword one-handed, but not a medium two-handed sword without penalty. So, if your goliath want to have a one-handed long spear, he must suffers the normal penalties for inappropriate weapon size (big hands, little shaft).
| Rapanuii |
Powerful Build in 3.5 did allow you to hold lage size weapons without penalty, and allowed you to hold a greatsword of medium size one handed. I never thought of the concept to use a two-handed reach weapon of medium sized one handed before to gain the benefits of reach, which is why I'm asking.
To clarify once again, there is no misunderstanding of the reach rules in according to size. It is very well understood the limitations of the fact that you're still a medium sized creature and not a large.
Two-handed Medium weapon into a one handed weapon acts as a large one handed reach weapon, which would leave this option eligible, right?
There isn't RAW on powerful build which is obviously why I am asking for others insight, and the Phalanx fighter being mentioned really does help. I can't really imagine some weapons like a scythe being used one handed under almost any circumstances, but that special training mentioned for Phalanx could be to use a reasonably shaped weapon (spear or polearm) that should be a large one handed weapon, which I don't see as a farcry from what the Goliath (Powerful Build) can do naturally.
So my two cents so far are that as long as the flavor of the weapon makes sense in terms of it being operational in one hand, then it should be good. My GM doesn't want to deal with unforeseen issues, and my character just running up with an efficient quiver full of polearms in order to get a no AoO reach CMB attempt, while still holding my bow. I suppose I will carry a whip and suffer the -4 penalty and keep myself at most 15 feet away.