Goblin Squad Member
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@All
I am a relative newcomer to these boards compared to some here. My first post here was only March 27th, 2013.
When I first started posting, I admit that I was a complete train wreck of confused ideas, concepts, and misconceptions about how I wanted to see PfO turn out.
Since that time, my ideas and philosophies about what will make PfO a "good" and "playable" game for me have changed a great deal. Now I have stepped back a little bit and would like to see it turn out that way for more than just myself.
I was in all manner of disagreements over things with any number of you and probably will be in the future. There have been raging debates back and forth between many of us.
Here is the thing though:
Only recently has all of this lively debate resulted in the removal of posts regularly. It used to happen occasionally, sure, but it is happening more and more now. I am seeing people that I admired for their thoughts, stooping to the level of other posters that are being antagonistic. I am just as guilty of this as any other.
When did the first insult fly? When did the first misrepresentation for sensation get posted to inflame the "adversary"?
Who cares?
Until things are more well defined, what is the use?
We have a lot of collective gaming experience here and a lot of intelligence. Could we have a little more maturity to go along with that? The Dev's want to see ideas, thoughts, and concerns. They do not want to watch us bicker back and forth when we could be doing constructive thinking and posting. There are some points of view that are never going to be agreed on. I do not believe that we will sway GWs plans much for their concept of PfO. We can't even agree on what it is.
I am going to steal something that someone I admire said once: This is a game, not Bushido. It would do us good to remember that it is supposed to be fun (win or lose for that play day) for all of us. This forum is supposed to be fun for all of us, but there really don't need to be winners or losers here. Only opinions and ideas.
This is a Call to Sanity Take it or leave it at your whim.
I take full responsibility for this...
Seconded....don't really need to say more than that
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Goblin Squad Member
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As someone who spends most of their time lurking on these forums, I agree wholeheartedly.
I've avoided these forums in the past due to sniping and bickering. I came to read about the game and see some insightful discussion. All too often, the toxic atmosphere being generated by the arguing buries any point that could have been made.
I'm dedicated to playing PfO, but if it's driving me away, what would it do to someone who is more casual or just curious about the game?
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Goblin Squad Member
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When did the first insult fly?
Are you really unable to see this? Do you seriously not see the same group of people consistently involved? Do you not see their posts before they're deleted? Do you not remember when I pointed it out at the very beginning? Do you not remember my call to rally the community to censure them? Do you not see how instead of being censured they've been embraced?
What did you think would happen?
Nihimon is this not ironic when you once again cast unfounded slurs in the good/evil thread
When did the first insult fly?Are you really unable to see this? Do you seriously not see the same group of people consistently involved? Do you not see their posts before they're deleted? Do you not remember when I pointed it out at the very beginning? Do you not remember my call to rally the community to censure them? Do you not see how instead of being censured they've been embraced?
What did you think would happen?
Not to mention my confession right at the beginning of this thread...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nihimon, at least for me, the sentence "I am seeing people that I admired for their thoughts, stooping to the level of other posters that are being antagonistic," would apply directly to you. We all already know you don't like some of the posters, but posting hateful antagonisms to fight their hateful antagonisms doesn't solve anything, and in fact serves to derail just about every thread on this board.
There have been a few really fun and intelligent ideas thrown out, and some intelligent argument on proposed and possible systems. There has also been a lot of stuff that isn't these things. All I'm asking is we try to remember why we're here; we want to be involved in the development of an awesome game by an awesome development team in some small way.
Maybe you missed the part right after your quote, but most of us don't care who let the first insult fly, we just want the circle to cease turning.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I personally enjoy when the leader of a group has his ideas or comments rejected by his own membership, and he does not pick up on that and instead doubles down on the insane rhetoric.
I will certaily try to be a bit less combative with the same individuals over and over again. I will just favorite those comments that disagree with them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Do you not remember my call to rally the community to censure them? Do you not see how instead of being censured they've been embraced?
What did you think would happen?
I saw it clearly.
Obviously, you did not see it clearly. Even here in a thread meant to end the bickering, you saw it fit to bicker.
I won't play the back-and-forth on this thread though. I will just point out my disagreement once and then move on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I personally enjoy when the leader of a group has his ideas or comments rejected by his own membership, and he does not pick up on that and instead doubles down on the insane rhetoric.
If this is referring to my disagreement with Nihimon, then it's an inaccurate depiction, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts to your ends. T7V is an open and democratic organisation - which means we value free speech. My opinion is my own and does not represent any CC or membership, nor is it in any way a slight to Nihimon (who is not, btw, the "leader" of T7V). It's not all that hard to disagree with someone without being rude about it. I think that was the point Bringslite was trying to make.
If it's not referring to my post, then please ignore me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I personally enjoy when the leader of a group has his ideas or comments rejected by his own membership, and he does not pick up on that and instead doubles down on the insane rhetoric.If this is referring to my disagreement with Nihimon, then it's an inaccurate depiction, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts to your ends. T7V is an open and democratic organisation - which means we value free speech. My opinion is my own and does not represent any CC or membership, nor is it in any way a slight to Nihimon (who is not, btw, the "leader" of T7V). It's not all that hard to disagree with someone without being rude about it. I think that was the point Bringslite was trying to make.
If it's not referring to my post, then please ignore me.
That was my point in a nutshell, Lhan. I do not hold any illusions that I have any more innocence in this trend than any other poster. None of what I have written is directed at any one individual.
@All
To those of you that have positively supported this opinion, I give thanks.
There is no loss of face in ignoring the jabs of posters that are determined to be rude.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I personally enjoy when the leader of a group has his ideas or comments rejected by his own membership, and he does not pick up on that and instead doubles down on the insane rhetoric.If this is referring to my disagreement with Nihimon, then it's an inaccurate depiction, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts to your ends. T7V is an open and democratic organisation - which means we value free speech. My opinion is my own and does not represent any CC or membership, nor is it in any way a slight to Nihimon (who is not, btw, the "leader" of T7V). It's not all that hard to disagree with someone without being rude about it. I think that was the point Bringslite was trying to make.
If it's not referring to my post, then please ignore me.
It was not specific to you Lhan, nor to Nihimon or Andius per say, even I have been disagreed with by The Goodfellow on these forums. But on the few instances where I was disagreed with by my members, I did not double down, but rather I stepped back and reevaluated.
Even you have changed my stance, and certainly my tone. Of the posters on these forums the opinions I value most are those that have been most level headed: Harad Navar, Pagan, Hobs, Bringslight, Lifedragn, The Goodfellow, Sintaqx, yourself (Lhan) and probably a few others...
Those of us that fight most are those that play the "Forum PVP Game", and we do that for the enjoyment of it as well.
What I will do is, in the future, is to be clear enough not to draw others into the argument. If you felt that I did so in your case, I apologize for that, it was not meant to make you feel uncomfortable to express your personal opinions.
Even you have changed my stance, and certainly my tone. Of the posters on these forums the opinions I value most are those that have been most level headed: Harad Navar, Pagan, Hobs, Bringslight, Lifedragn, The Goodfellow, Sintaqx, yourself (Lhan) and probably a few others...
Uh, you forgot me there...
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Goblin Squad Member
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Uh, you forgot me there...
Even you have changed my stance, and certainly my tone. Of the posters on these forums the opinions I value most are those that have been most level headed: Harad Navar, Pagan, Hobs, Bringslight, Lifedragn, The Goodfellow, Sintaqx, yourself (Lhan) and probably a few others...
You are probably the "few others"...he probably knew listing you once would not do you the credit deserved.
You are probably the "few others"...he probably knew listing you once would not do you the credit deserved.Uh, you forgot me there...
Even you have changed my stance, and certainly my tone. Of the posters on these forums the opinions I value most are those that have been most level headed: Harad Navar, Pagan, Hobs, Bringslight, Lifedragn, The Goodfellow, Sintaqx, yourself (Lhan) and probably a few others...
Fair Enough.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I personally enjoy when the leader of a group has his ideas or comments rejected by his own membership, and he does not pick up on that and instead doubles down on the insane rhetoric.If this is referring to my disagreement with Nihimon, then it's an inaccurate depiction, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts to your ends. T7V is an open and democratic organisation - which means we value free speech. My opinion is my own and does not represent any CC or membership, nor is it in any way a slight to Nihimon (who is not, btw, the "leader" of T7V). It's not all that hard to disagree with someone without being rude about it. I think that was the point Bringslite was trying to make.
If it's not referring to my post, then please ignore me.
It's pretty clear to me that he was referring to something internal to Pax.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's pretty clear to me that he was referring to something internal to Pax.I personally enjoy when the leader of a group has his ideas or comments rejected by his own membership, and he does not pick up on that and instead doubles down on the insane rhetoric.If this is referring to my disagreement with Nihimon, then it's an inaccurate depiction, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts to your ends. T7V is an open and democratic organisation - which means we value free speech. My opinion is my own and does not represent any CC or membership, nor is it in any way a slight to Nihimon (who is not, btw, the "leader" of T7V). It's not all that hard to disagree with someone without being rude about it. I think that was the point Bringslite was trying to make.
If it's not referring to my post, then please ignore me.
Your post has been flagged good sir. Do not make potentially disparaging inferences about an organization you know nothing about. You are the second member of The Seventh Veil to do so.
Your post has been flagged good sir. Do not make potentially disparaging inferences about an organization you know nothing about. You are the second member of The Seventh Veil to do so.It's pretty clear to me that he was referring to something internal to Pax.I personally enjoy when the leader of a group has his ideas or comments rejected by his own membership, and he does not pick up on that and instead doubles down on the insane rhetoric.If this is referring to my disagreement with Nihimon, then it's an inaccurate depiction, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't twist my posts to your ends. T7V is an open and democratic organisation - which means we value free speech. My opinion is my own and does not represent any CC or membership, nor is it in any way a slight to Nihimon (who is not, btw, the "leader" of T7V). It's not all that hard to disagree with someone without being rude about it. I think that was the point Bringslite was trying to make.
If it's not referring to my post, then please ignore me.
Messing with the Goblinworks Exec Founder... How do you get your pants on in the morning over those balls of yours? Lol.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Will everyone please just stop this? Bringslite made a plea for sanity and even it has descended into sniping. I'd hoped the pre-launch community could remain a community at least until there were game rewards to squabble over in character.
It's perfectly possible to disagree and argue - strongly - without catty remarks. Let's all try to do that for a while, shall we?
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Will everyone please just stop this? Bringslite made a plea for sanity and even it has descended into sniping. I'd hoped the pre-launch community could remain a community at least until there were game rewards to squabble over in character.
It's perfectly possible to disagree and argue - strongly - without catty remarks. Let's all try to do that for a while, shall we?
These types of threads (while possibly well-intentioned) are the breeding grounds of flame-wars and hurt feelings. I'm a sad panda. ;(
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's pretty clear to me that he was referring to something internal to Pax.
It is pretty clear that you purposely ignored the post in which I explained who I was referring to and what situation I was referring to.
If you wish to continue fabricating conflicts within our (Pax / UNC) politics, I might be tempted to refresh everyone's memory as to the status TEO placed T7V on following the Treaty of Rovagug debacle. It makes me wonder how you ever got that alliance together after that slap in the face...... Oh, maybe you didn't know about that?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I might be tempted to refresh everyone's memory as to the status TEO placed T7V on following the Treaty of Rovagug debacle. It makes me wonder how you ever got that alliance together after that slap in the face...... Oh, maybe you didn't know about that?
Everything else aside, I would love to hear about this so I can document it in the "history" section of our public library/wiki.
EDIT: I would hate to further hijack this thread, so feel free to share it in TSV's thread. Much appreciated.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thanks for this post Bringslite. Also a thanks to those that understood the point of the OP. To those that used this thread as an opportunity to continue business as usual, I can only assume you either did not get it or disagree with the premise strongly.
I will take extra care to present my thoughts without attack to an organization or a community member. I will not open old wounds, make insinuations, or otherwise paint a negative picture with my posts.
I will do so without expectation of anyone else reciprocating. In the end that is all any of us can do.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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It's pretty clear to me that he was referring to something internal to Pax.It is pretty clear that you purposely ignored the post in which I explained who I was referring to and what situation I was referring to.
If you wish to continue fabricating conflicts within our (Pax / UNC) politics, I might be tempted to refresh everyone's memory as to the status TEO placed T7V on following the Treaty of Rovagug debacle. It makes me wonder how you ever got that alliance together after that slap in the face...... Oh, maybe you didn't know about that?
It wasn't even hard. We took the opportunity to get together and communicate our opinions, feelings, and actual positions without bothering to attack or defend straw men, and we realized that we still share the same end goals. I'm much happier with allies that periodically rationally evaluate their priorities and how to best satisfy them, and it is confusing to me that you appear not to get that.