Can I shield bash with a Klar?

[Krodjin]

I know I can attack with a Klar as a one handed weapon, but can I shield bash with it as an off-hand attack as well?

This would lower the TWF penalties from -4/-4 to -2/2 correct? Would the bashing klar be doing damage as a klar, or as a light wooden shield?

The above assumes using two klars, but could you make both attacks with the same klar?

[Abyssian]

Klar are, for all intents and purposes, spiked shields with the slashing damage type rather than the piercing type.

Hope this helps.

[ecw1701]

I'd say yes.
I had a TWF based character that used a klar for a long time.
Damage is the Klar's listed damage, not a light wooden shield, though.
*Although I did ultimately trade in the klar for a spiked light iron shield.

[blackbloodtroll]

An attack with a shield, or Klar, is the same thing.

Both are weapons, and both can be used to make primary, or off-hand attacks.

There is really not much of anything that can be done with one, that cannot be done with the other.

[Krodjin]

What are the penalties if you fight with two Klars?

[Brotato]

The weapon description of a Klar says it is treated as a light shield with shield spikes. However, the weapon table has it listed, for all intents and purposes, as a heavy shield with shield spikes (a one-handed weapon that deals 1d6, not a light weapon that deals 1d4).

This does hold implications for two weapon fighting. One way, two of them can be wielded for a -2/-2. The other way, they are at a -4/-4. Beats me which one is right, though.

Edit: In the armor and shield table, klar is listed with a +1 shield bonus, same as a light shield. This doesn't help with the fighting question, as it seems to be a light shield that is as hard to two weapon fight with as a heavy shield.

[Bizbag]

Quote:

The above assumes using two klars, but could you make both attacks with the same klar?

It's not a double weapon, so no.

It's kind of puzzling why they'd say the Klar counts as a light shield, but then list it under one-handed. Why not just put it under light weapons?

My guess as to RAW: you can use it in whichever way is more beneficial to you: two-hand the Klar for 1.5, or TWF for -2/-2.

My guess as to RAI: it's a 1-hander but you can carry things in that hand like a light shield, and its description just indicates its defensive stats (+1 ac -1 check etc)

[Nefreet]

If you search the Rules Forum, you will find many questions regarding the Klar. It desperately needs a makeover, but I doubt we'll ever see one.

For example, you can normally craft a spiked shield using different materials for the shield and the spikes, but you cannot do so for the Klar without a houserule.

[Krodjin]

Yeah it's frustrating as I've got two build ideas I'd really like to use in PFS, but I can only assume there is table variance on the weapons both builds utilize, specifically they are;

1) A Shoanti "pit fighter" that uses 2 klars.

2) And a Monk that uses a Double Chained Kama.

Both weapons have questions about how they can be used.

[blackbloodtroll]

There is some confusion as to whether the Klar is a Light, or One-handed weapon.

[Krodjin]

Alright, so I've decided I'm going to go ahead and play my two-klar character. He will be a Shoanti Ranger (Sword & Shield combat style). Feats look something like this;

1st: Power Attack, HB: Improved Shield Bash
RB: Shield Slam
3rd: Improved Bull Rush

5th: Two Weapon Fighting
RB: Shield Master
7th: Double Slice

9th: Greater Bull Rush
RB: Bashing Finish
11th: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting

Here is how I am assuming things will work...

At early levels he fights with a single Klar. 2-handing it to get the favourable Power Attack trade off.

He retains his shield bonus to AC at level 1, but is otherwise not doing anything to write home about. In fact he's most definitely "sub-optimal" if you care about that sort of thing.

At level 2 he makes a free bull-rush with every attack (since an attack with a klar is a shield bash). Which is pretty cool. Especially if he can get a foe up against a wall and inflict the prone condition. At level 3 he has a slightly better chance of making that happen.

At level 4 his Ranger abilities give him access to spells & an Animal Companion... Because I don't have room to take Boon Companion, I will probably look at archetypes that swap that feature. I'll also look at the skirmisher, but I am reluctant to ditch spell casting.

At level 5 he gets his second Klar going. This mainly for style & imagery. Mechanically I am waaay behind a Thunder & Fang Ranger in terms of DPR etc. I'm not really worried about that though. Mechanically I would presume his TWF penalties are only -2/-2 on account that the description of the klar says it's like attacking with light wooden shield, which is a light weapon.

At 6th level things begin to pick up. Early access to Shield Master is awesome. To be honest I have no idea how this will impact fighting with 2 klars (which are both considered "shields"), but I'm going to assume it will (and should) be ruled that he does not suffer the TWF penalty with only one of the Klars (presumably the "off-hand" one)... But if the PFS Judge running the game wants to have a more liberal interpretation I certainly won't try and talk him or her out of it. What I'm really excited about is the Shield's enhancement bonus also functioning as a weapon enhancement bonus. Half price enhancement boni to attack & damage??? Yes please! So worse case scenario is TWF penalties are now -2/0. Better case (doubtful) they are 0/0. Best case (truly cheesetastic) they are 0/0 and things like Power Attack don't impose a penalty either (at this point I would probably protest and tell the GM, thanks but no thanks, or else I'd feel dirty).

Levels 7 to 12 are pretty standard. Early access to Bashing Finish is nice, but I intend to stick with 2 klars for style & role play reasons, so really it's just another, of many, sub-optimal choices along the way.

If anybody has any advice or rule clarifications I would gladly solicit your feedback!